you don't give a fuck

[cj001f]

A vote is a vote.

 

Except in Chicago or Florida*

 

*Votes may exceed or be beneath the the legal limit in these jurisdictions

[KaskadskyjKozak]

A vote is a vote.

 

Except in Chicago or Florida*

 

*Votes may exceed or be beneath the the legal limit in these jurisdictions

 

or in King County

[JayB]

I've always thought that the glib "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." statement is a transparent crock of shit,

But one man's freedom fighter can become the same man's terrorist...the Afghan freedom fighters, for example, that later morphed into Al Qaeda using the skills that we taught them.

 

We should be very careful what we teach rough characters to do in this world. They don't always stay on your side.

 

Ya well one could probably argue the same thing about veterans of the Revolutionary War turning the skills that they picked up while fighting the British against the new government that supplanted it, and that Washington, Adams, et. al should have forseen this and forgone the whole affair. Ditto for arming the Russians while they were fighting the Germans, etc.

 

Back when the US was funding the Afghans, anyone who suggested that less than 10 years hence the Soviet Union would implode and the ragtag band of fanatics sporting the beards and turbans would surpass the Soviets as a strategic threat in another 10 years hence would have found everyone within earshot doubled over with teary-eyed laughter.

 

This notion that somehow leaders who are confronted with a grave, immediate, and obvious threat should somehow forsee one of the millions of unintended consequences that could potentially result from their actions and at some random point in the future and let these considerations fundamentally alter the manner in which they address the threat in front of them doesn't seem like a terribly wise or viable way of confronting threats.

 

If I'm a doctor and there's a massive ebola-esque plague errupting somewhere within our borders and I've got a pill that will neutralize it, I imagine that concerns that it might potentially lead to an increased probability of cancer in some people some years down the road. Of course, if everyone dies from the plague, that'd be one way of keeping those cancer stats in check.

[chucK]

Not to mention the fact that while we were equipping the Afghan freedom fighters they were focusing their attacks on the members of an occupying military force, as opposed to random civilians.

 

 

I think even JayB could probably label fighters in Iraq focusing on blowing up allied convoys and checkpoints as freedom fighters. The ones setting off carbombs in markets are the terrorists.

[Arc]

.......I dont.

[tvashtarkatena]

This notion that somehow leaders who are confronted with a grave, immediate, and obvious threat should somehow forsee one of the millions of unintended consequences

At this point I'd settle for leadership capable of thinking up at least one unintended consequence.

[hawkeye69]

This notion that somehow leaders who are confronted with a grave, immediate, and obvious threat should somehow forsee one of the millions of unintended consequences

At this point I'd settle for leadership capable of thinking up at least one unintended consequence.

 

At this point I'd settle for leadership capable of thinking ...

[JayB]

Not to mention the fact that while we were equipping the Afghan freedom fighters they were focusing their attacks on the members of an occupying military force, as opposed to random civilians.

 

 

I think even JayB could probably label fighters in Iraq focusing on blowing up allied convoys and checkpoints as freedom fighters. The ones setting off carbombs in markets are the terrorists.

 

Gosh.

 

I don't blame you for not reading through my long-winded post in its entirety, but the overall point was that not everyone who attacks millitary targets should automatically be classified as "Freedom Fighters," for a number of reasons, some of which I'll restate in a somewhat less long-winded post.

 

For one, you are assuming that there's a clearcut distinction between the guys blowing up the supermarkets and the guys attacking our forces, and I'd wager that theres no clean divide between the two.

 

Secondly, you have to look at the ends that they are hoping to achieve with their violence, some of which include some vaguely nationalist sentiment, but none of them seems to be shooting for anything like personal or political freedoms. If anything, they're trying to dismantle them in favor of a return to a totalitarian state or the adoption of sharia law or some combination of both.

 

Then there's also the fact that there is/was a political process that they could have availed themselves of if they wished to persuade their countrymen to adopt their agenda, which they made a conspicuous point of not doing, probably because they reasoned correctly that they'd have it rejected out of hand, and so they are trying to bridge the gap between their vision and what the public will willingly accept by violent means.

 

On this and many other counts, these guys are anything but freedom fighters, and the fact that so many folks in the west think otherwise is something that I have a hard time understanding.

[cj001f]

JayB-

Are you going to codify this in some sort of "War on Terror Manifesto"? It'd be the perfect thing for aspiring rightists to prominently put on their coffee table for centuries! You could inspire hundreds of regimes!

[tvashtarkatena]

the overall point was that not everyone who attacks millitary targets should automatically be classified as "Freedom Fighters,"

 

'Freedom fighters' is a make believe term useful only for stump speeches. Anti-American factions in Iraq are insurgents.

 

As the situation in Iraq continues to worsen, Americans might ask themselves whether we can and should continue to try to move that country towards a stable democracy. If the initial invasion was a mistake, why do we think we can somehow fix a strategy that was fundamentally flawed from the beginning (the very same dilemna we faced during the Vietnam war)? Will any amount of additional American resources turn Iraq around, or does our presence antagonize the situation further? Does our continued presence prolong the agony and postpone eventual stabilization, even if it means a period of civil war between now and then?

 

Here are what I see as the basic facts of Iraq. What we are doing is not working, and the situation is worsening. Calling for more troops is moot; we don't, and won't, have them.

 

One way out of this mess would be to support an independent Kurdistan with a continued American presence there. This was guarantee the stability of the only American-friendly part of Iraq, serve as a jumping off point for anti-terrorist action in the region, and concentrate our forces for a more credible threat against Iran should they really start to misbehave (while at the same time extending an olive branch towards that country). As for the rest of Iraq: scheduled withdrawal. Give the country a specific timetable to get its shit together. Or get its civil war over with faster. Either way, we fucked up, but we're not helping matters anymore. Sorry.

[billcoe]

Don, I think it's even funnier if you imagine it as a Dennis Miller sounding spew. Nice photo montage as usual Dude.

 

 

Glassbonghits said:

for starters i don't buy this bs about not antagonizing china. that was the same rethoric used in dealings with soviets. and finally reagan told them to fuck off and they did.

yes, you can change thing- first by voting. someone could write an official letter signed by cc.com condoning the incident. once i was told for eacch signed name they count 800 votes.

also one thing i'd like to mention. this is not an isolated incident. this is deliberate and systematic extermination of the nation.

 

Well the Chinese 'Pwned Tibet in 1959. Now that you have figured out what all of us unselfish bitches are ignoring Bob, could you advise us what specific steps You personally have enacted to counter this Chinese perifidy?

 

It will help the rest of us uncaring Fucks sort it out to know what you have done.

[StreetBoss]

I don't give a flying fuck.