jonah Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I realize this should be in the Access column, but am posting it here in the hopes that more people will notice it. I have been looking into getting the road to the Goldbar boulders fixed for several months now, and thought I had a viable plan. But yesterday I spoke with a representative with Manke Timber, the owner of most of the land. While he was amenable to letting climbers use the area and even to regrade the road up to the boulders, there was some bad news. He said Manke is planning to go back in there in a couple years and start logging again. Looking at survey maps, the forested area they want to log is pretty much the whole upper bouldering area. Not only would this shut down all access during the logging, it would also significantly degrade the climbing experience, not to mention other environmental concerns. Anyway, that's a heads up to anyone interested in climbing at Gold Bar. I'm not even sure anything can be done about it. It is after all their land, and climbers are there with Manke's permission. It appears there are no final plans yet, but sometime in the near future, climbing is going to shut down for quite a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMcJizzy Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 There was no bouldering, and limited access to Zeke's wall, prior to the initial logging. In my mind, this whole climbing area is a product of logging. As such, a disruption to climbing by renewed logging should be viewed as temporary problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCramer Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I only disagree with Mark to the extent that he is wrong about bouldering not existing in the area before logging. A very small group of people had been bouldering in the area on and off for years. Goldbar as a popular destination is the direct result of logging operations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonah Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 Well, it will improve the road access, that's for sure, and could spark a renaissance at Zeke's because of the new road all the way up there. But it will also take away the forest and turn the area into a slash pile, which aesthetically sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I only disagree with Mark to the extent that he is wrong about bouldering not existing in the area before logging. A very small group of people had been bouldering in the area on and off for years. Goldbar as a popular destination is the direct result of logging operations. So a large group of people are being asked to put energy into fighting for the boldering convenience of a very small group of people? I don't mean to come off like an asshole here, but it seems a little out of balance... Maybe some of us could toodle on out there and see what the fuss is about? Is anyone heading out there this weekend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCramer Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 So a large group of people are being asked to put energy into fighting for the boldering convenience of a very small group of people? I don't mean to come off like an asshole here, but it seems a little out of balance... Maybe some of us could toodle on out there and see what the fuss is about? Is anyone heading out there this weekend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 So a large group of people are being asked to put energy into fighting for the boldering convenience of a very small group of people? I don't mean to come off like an asshole here, but it seems a little out of balance... Maybe some of us could toodle on out there and see what the fuss is about? Is anyone heading out there this weekend? Does that mean you are heading out there this weekend or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMcJizzy Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 But it will also take away the forest and turn the area into a slash pile, which aesthetically sucks. But you're OK with Manke running their Cat up there to re-grade the road for the express benefit of boulderers? They have to pay for their Cat and fuel somehow, and they are a lumber company. Your tone reminds me of someone who wants to bite the hand that feeds them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kix Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I appreciate your efforts Jonah and thanks for the update. there is so much rock to be found in the greater sky valley and elsewhere. perhaps this will be incentive for peeps to get out and explore, to discover more in the area. goldbar (zekes)is damn good, but it is not the end-all promised land. in fact the aesthetic and the locals have long been a turn-off for me, though I do still venture there occasionally to explore for new lines up in the woods. there is one hell of a lot of good rock there. but there is elsewhere too. Maybe peeps just need to be willing to hike a bit more. everyone just wants to roll up and boulder, a benefit for the most part that is due to the hard work of a very few people who actually put the effort in to explore, discover and work their asses off to clean and develop. I challenge anyone who reads Jonahs post and cries about the potential loss or the poor road condition to get out and explore and find their own area. whether or not you share is your call, but dont cry about potential limitations of an area that is private property to begin with and which is the fruit of labor of a small group of dedicated people. I swing a mean machete and I never run out of new boulders to climb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 anything taller than 3 feet??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kix Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 careful shorty, you are revealing the details of your fear threshold. 23 feet count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kix Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 p.s. kiss my ass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMo Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I perceive that most objections to logging seem to focus on the "supply" side of the question, e.g. "this, that, or the other patch of woods should not be logged". Few objections continue to suggest which patch of timber should instead be logged, or, alternatively how the demand for wood products could be reduced by an equivalent number of board feet. That said, it's Manke's wood and current economics probably dictate that it come down. Regarding the road, it's been more or less passable as far as the mine since way back when. If you propose that it be maintained I'd be curious who you think should do that at whose expense. And what would you propose for the mobs of ORV'rs? Are they included in using that road or not? What is the landowner's strong reason to assumethe expense (and in 2006 America, the liability) of any of this. Why don't they just cut their trees, pull the culverts, berm it off, and go away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kix Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 What is the landowner's strong reason to assumethe expense (and in 2006 America, the liability) of any of this. I also found it curious that they might be amenable to regrading the road when they do not plan to cut for a few years. It is the off-roaders that are tearing that road up and contributing greatly to is current state. Were it my land I would lock the gates now, berm it off and preserve the road until I am ready to cut, then regrade it when I am ready to use it rather than regrade it in the near future, only to have the ORV's tear it up again in the interim. Then again I might just set up a kiosk and charge everyone for access. Nothing wrong with a little capitalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susan Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 We'll all be lucky if they really want to keep it in productive forest land. If the log it they will have to replant and it will grow back. The alternative for the company is to cut it and then subdivide it. In my opinion, a permanent subdivision would be worse than a temporary harvest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 If it were my land I would open the first bolted boulder park. I respect that folks have strong feelings about this. Makes me happy that most of us donate to Access Fund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMo Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Too bad they shot that monster erratic at the new Cadman Pit across the way. You could have rolled it up to your digs & gotten rich. One could perhaps be grateful that the current owner is at least amenable to private uses at all. Many are the private landowners who are putting up gates and keep out signs in response to real or imagined fears of one bugaboo or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 No kidding. After reading this site, they would all gate us out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kix Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Too bad they shot that monster erratic at the new Cadman Pit across the way. You could have rolled it up to your digs & gotten rich. Its gone? I used to stare at it through binocs and have a wank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Landowners who allow recreational use of their land are exempt from liability for injuries, provided there is no charge for the usage. This law has been amended to explicitly include climbing thanks to the work of Andy Fitz and others. That's a real disincentive to open a kiosk and charge a fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Sweet. Are landowners exempt from getting sued? Or do they still have to go to court to defend themselves at their expense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMo Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Its gone? I used to stare at it through binocs and have a wank. Over the bank in pieces...giant day-glo smiley face and all. I suppose you could still wank over the chunks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I have always appreciated the loggerman. If it wasn't for the logger, we would not have logging roads. I am thankful for those logging roads to continue to the activity I pursue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonah Posted August 23, 2006 Author Share Posted August 23, 2006 I have no idea why certain posters here seem so up in arms. All I was doing was posting a notice of potential access threats. I did not ask for anyone's time or money. You have no idea what efforts I have made to bring the road back to its original condition. Your assumptions that I am trying to force the landowner to take on that expense are wrong. I did not go on a tirade about logging. I did not criticize the timber company. I expressly stated it is their land and that they have a right to log it. I want to continue to have a good relationship with the landowner, and should have realized that might be threatened by posting ANYTHING on this site because of the incredibly strange reactions and ranting of certain posters. I would appreciate it if the moderator could please move this to spray or delete it entirely. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 I have no idea why certain posters here seem so up in arms. All I was doing was posting a notice of potential access threats. I did not ask for anyone's time or money. Normally, folks who want something posted in Access (which you initially requested in your original post), it is given and taken as a call to action. Climbers tend to be action-oriented people, especially when its a topic related to climbing. You have no idea what efforts I have made to bring the road back to its original condition. Your assumptions that I am trying to force the landowner to take on that expense are wrong. I believe you made that clear here: "I have been looking into getting the road to the Goldbar boulders fixed for several months now, and thought I had a viable plan. But yesterday I spoke with a representative with Manke Timber, the owner of most of the land." And I don't think anyone said anything about you forcing anyone to do anything. They were just discussing who pays for what. I did not go on a tirade about logging. I did not criticize the timber company. I expressly stated it is their land and that they have a right to log it. The second part of your message here was confused by this: "Looking at survey maps, the forested area they want to log is pretty much the whole upper bouldering area. Not only would this shut down all access during the logging, it would also significantly degrade the climbing experience, not to mention other environmental concerns." You have to admit that this may sound a wee bit alarmist. I want to continue to have a good relationship with the landowner, and should have realized that might be threatened by posting ANYTHING on this site because of the incredibly strange reactions and ranting of certain posters. Maybe you are right and you should have realized the possible impact of your words. But you didn't and that is ok. Maybe you can relate to posters who put up "strange" responses and realize maybe we don't always consider or foresee how our posts will be interpreted. I would appreciate it if the moderator could please move this to spray or delete it entirely. You began this thread and asked that it be moved to Access. That wasn't done. Now you want it moved to Spray. Good luck, maybe this will help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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