2 Person Crevasse Rescue

[cmonster]

I'm looking for some good resources on learning 2 person crevasse rescue. Recommendations?

 

[max]

Tip: Practice. I know this sounds silly, but you might be suprised at how many people read a book, do the setups in their living room, read the book again, and feel comfortable. And it's even more important to practice the two person rescues than threee or four person rescues... I know I studied up a bit, thought about it (always good...) and did a few mock rescues. I felt ready. Then on a whim (yikes!) decided to do some practice on the coleman w/ my girlfriend... boy did we learn something! The jist of it was that it's much harder than you might first imagine and you've got to have you shit dialed! The whole process is much more sensitive to becoming really hard really quick than three or four person rescues.

 

One more thing: I've often seen people in two person teams making a critical mistake: they have more rope between themselves than on the tails. For a good setup, you've got to have longer tails than the rope between the two of you.

And finally, to address you actual question : REI the classic book... Glacier Travel and Crevase Rescue... Andy Selters? Mountaineer types, help me out here!

 

[mattp]

It's Andy Selters, I believe. And yes, Max, you are right: it is much harder than you can believe. Try it sometime, on a warm day when you are well rested, and you will find it difficult. Then imagine doing it when the weather sucks and you are tired and maybe you have big packs. Travelling on the middle third (or less) of the rope is a good idea as well.

[Dan_Larson]

when setting up the initial anchor on a 2 person team I saw a step saver in the book. When you hook up the prusik to the initial anchor use your texas prusiks they are already hooked up.Any body have any step savers or helpful hints to make setting up the anchors a little easier ( I didn't buy the book just glanced at it in REI.

[Zenolith]

There's a new book out called 'Glaciers!' by Michael Strong et al. that I think is more in depth than any of the others. There are a lot of good tips in it.

Here's a tip of my own. You'd think it was common sense but you'd be surprised...

Don't girth hitch your axe so that the sling runs over the head; you'll cut it the first time you have to hammer a picket in w/ it. Don't be an idiot and pound with the adze either.

Max is right about the long rope ends. You need enough to set up a C-pulley at least. You cant haul a climber out by yourself without at least a z on a c but you can belay a prusiking or climbing victim with a C on his harness and a prusik at the anchor.

[jrwclimbs]

It's a good idea to have 2 pieces of snow pro handy, i.e. 2 pickets, one on each side of your pack, with the runner/biner draped over your shoulder and clipped to your shoulder straps so you can grab them easily in the self(team) arrest position.

You never know which hand you'll be arresting with on the axe head, so it's nice to be able to grab either picket with the opposite hand. Unfortunately most climbers tend to carry only one picket per person.

Another nice piece of gear is the orange Petzl Pulley wheel that fits over some oval biners. It's ultralight since it has no housing so you can't scoff at the weight. Check to see if it fits your ovals first, I know it doesn't fit BDs. It has to go with an oval biner or the rope will slip off the wheel so the ultralight biners won't cut it here.

I also carry one of the small REI pulleys, too, for the initial anchor point pulley since it's easier to set up and it doesn't suck in the prussik like the regular Petzl Pulley (with metal housing).

The Petzl Tibloc can also be clipped on quickly in lieu of one of the prussik knots and it's obviously self tending (though I'd trust a prussik more, especially on a thin rope).

If you're in really soft snow its gonna suck making the anchor since you'll have to dig a deadman trench (while still in the arrest position!) and the rope for your partner will be so embedded that they may not be able to get out at all on that line (hence the longer tails!)

One last trick, if you have a rope that will very often be used for 2 person glacier travel, make marks ahead of time for the proper lengths for the tie in, this should save a fair amount of time at the high camp and minimize the guess work of your arm lengths vs. the rope length so you can be very sure you'll have enough rope to extract your cold pal.

good luck and go practice somewhere safe!

[Dan_Larson]

Any suggestions for getting the initial anchor in with difficult snow. I'm thinking about bringing a hammer with me , and hanging it off my harness (yes I'm new ) It seems like the only logical thing to do to me.Hate to leave my partner hanging because I wasn't fully prepared any suggestions?

[Billy]

I would definately take a guided instructional course. Its worth all the money you'll pay. Reading a book and going out to try it only will get you so far.

[Dan_Larson]

I just finished the mountaineers basic course and they only teach team methods. The subject of 2-person teams seems to be one of those learn on your own subjects.

[max]

Practice, practice, practice!

With regards to the reading vs instructions: yes, it's nice to have a guide, but these people can only show you so much in 4 (?) days. I still think someone can go out, practice, revise, prctice, revise, etc... and come to a point where they know they've reach a competancy level they're comfortable with. Call me bold and individualistic... Working with others helps too because they may see faults, shortcut, or improvement to the system you develop, not to mention improve their own setups.

Remeber: Practice!

 

[To_The_Top]

.......And a good place to practice is a place you can get out of easy, like an old cornice, say at Granite Mtn, or Paradise parking lot (not this year).

I hired a guide to teach me too, and that was way better than looking at a book a hundered times. I go out every year several times to practice setting it all up. This also is good in setting up anchors and experimenting what works in different situations. If you practice, hopefully autopilot will help and you will be familiar with several options in setting up anchors. I know of two times this year where snow bridges on Rainier have collapsed sending one person of a two man team into a crevasse.

TTT

[AllenN]

Dan, I think you've hit is on the head when you said the Mountaineers basic course didn't cover 2-person crevasse rescue. I've never taken their course (I've looked at some of the materials and spoken with people who have) however I would not expect them to teach 2-person crevasse rescue in a *basic* course. IMO, 2-person crevasse rescue is not a basic technique - it's an advanced technique.

Basic mountaineering courses are meant to teach recreational mountaineering. I think they exist to teach people how to be good team members and provide the skills to, with some experience, become leaders.

You mention that you are new to mountaineering; I think that's awesome! Climb on! But before you start worrying about 2-person crevasse rescue I'd recommend getting 3-person crevasse rescue via the direct pull method memorized first and stick to climbing with two, three-person rope teams for the first several climbs.

That said, my simple recommendations are: minimum the end folks on the rope should be carrying at least one picket with runner and biners attached. Each person on the rope should have the minimum full compliment of rescue gear: texas-style prussiks, a double runner / chest harness and biner, and tie-off loop.

Then write up the crevasse rescue steps on a computer, print it out and tape it to a 3x5 card, laminate the card, and stick the card in the top of your pack. Then when the bad stuff happens and you need your wits about you, you can whip out the card and remember what the heck you're supposed to do. 3x5 card in the top of your pack may sound funny... but it will never hurt.

Just my safety conscious $.02.

-Allen

[Pro_popper]

zzz...zzzz...zzz..

[Dan_Larson]

I appreciate your concern three person came pretty easy to me and I've been practicing 2 person. I am of above average intelligence and I think I'll pass on the cheat notes .Who are you climbing with anyway .Common sense, practice and a little finess will take me a long ways.

[Dan_Larson]

Allan, I second zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[EddieE]

I like to travel with a small loop tied into the rope below my prusiks. If my partner falls in, it's super easy to slam a picket in and clip him/her off. I can now escape the arrest and do what I need to do without 200 pounds hanging off of me.

[AllenN]

I suppose all the "zzzz"'s indicate you all find my response BOR-ing... I'll take the slagging for thinking safely any day though.

Dan, also I wasn't questioning your intelligence at all - simply making a suggestion. Almost all the posts to your question stress practice (practice, practice) and a little insurance can never hurt.

As far as who I climb with: minimum three others in order to make two, two-person rope teams.

-Allen