Ed_Hobbick Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 How about using a Prussik knot instead of the clove hitch method for solo aid. It seems that the prussik would feed better. Has anyone ever done this? Quote
JosephH Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Probably not the best option. Falling on prussiks is probably not a good practice, use a grigri with a backup knot if you don't want to use a clove. Quote
Ed_Hobbick Posted February 13, 2006 Author Posted February 13, 2006 I was just thinking that the Prussik would eliminate the biner and the gri gri. The biner seems to be subject to a possible cross load situation with the gri gri method. Quote
Dru Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 the prussik will slip and melt through where the clove hitch will lock and stop your fall. Â prussik Quote
EWolfe Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 I was just thinking that the Prussik would eliminate the biner and the gri gri. The biner seems to be subject to a possible cross load situation with the gri gri method. Â There is a modification to the gri-gri that helps this out and doesn't effect regular performance. Â Do a search. Quote
Ed_Hobbick Posted February 13, 2006 Author Posted February 13, 2006 Get a belayer you loner! Belayers can be freaky. Quote
TrogdortheBurninator Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 What about those fancy new anti-crossload DMM biners? Quote
telemarker Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Attach the gri-gri to your locker as normal, then wrap some tape around the end of the biner nearest the belay loop. This will keep it from cross loading. Or, DMM sells a plastic sleeve that fits over the carabiner to keep it from rotating. Quote
Ed_Hobbick Posted February 13, 2006 Author Posted February 13, 2006 Thanks to all for the input. Â Over and Out. Quote
catbirdseat Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 How about using a Prussik knot instead of the clove hitch method for solo aid. It seems that the prussik would feed better. Has anyone ever done this? If you consult Self-Rescue Techniques by Fasulo, you'll note that he recommends two prusiks when ascending a taught rope (where it is not possible to tied backup knots). In addition, he recommends a locking biner on a short sling clipped to the rope. Â Use of two prusiks would tend to negate any advantage over the clove hitch. Quote
Billygoat Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Renato Cassarota (sp?) used this set up for all his climbs. He wasn't afraid of a little friction. these are from an email his wife sent me: Â Â Â Â Â Quote
Dru Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Two clove hitches is just fine and less bulky than a bunch of gay prussiks in rainbow colours. Â To avoid crossloading of biner by GriGri, use a 3/8" locking maillon rapide instead of a biner. It might be 2x as heavy but it is 10x less likely to crossload because of the dimensions (long and narrow like a paper clip), and who cares if its heavy, you're aiding. Quote
billcoe Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Renato Cassarota (sp?) used this set up for all his climbs. He wasn't afraid of a little friction. these are from an email his wife sent me:  Thanks for sharing Billygoat.  More: death of Renatto Casorotto  In either case, those are pretty interesting diagrams given how hard of a level Casorotto was soloing in the Dolomites. Fantasic that you shared them here, thanks from all of us! It looks like he used a single jumar for aiding and dual prussics for freeing if I'm reading that correctly. Thats ballzy.  2nd question to Joseph, I know you solo quite a bit using a modified Grigri. Do you have any concerns about crossloading biners and not using backup knots for your gri-gri set up?  Regards:  Bill Quote
ketch Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 I'm not Joseph but I do solo with a GriGri often enough. I believe that I use the same modified device he does. Â I have no difficulties with crossloading, the modification serves to keep the device correctly oriented which by default keeps the biner correct also. I do tie back ups when climbing with that setup. I find that if I tie in frequently I have to manualy feed rope through the device, if I leave a little more space the device feeds itself a bit better. For me it is my constantly adapting style. If I am worried about the moves and want a short backup I have to stop frequently and feed rope. If my head lets me run it out a bit the rope takes care of itself. Sort of backwards from how you would really like it. Â On the other hand I have never taken a fall where the GriGri slipped and the backups ended up loaded. Quote
texplorer Posted February 15, 2006 Posted February 15, 2006 I use an unmodified grigri and its has gotten me up 30 pitches and held 4 falls no problem. Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted February 15, 2006 Posted February 15, 2006 I use [a] grigri  Ah, you're such a sport-weenie! You probably used a stick-clip to hang the draws on the latest chip-and-glue pile you're hangdogging into submission, eh?  How the mighty have fallen... Quote
Billygoat Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 BillC Â I think that he is using the single jumar when aiding as I would use a daisy chain and a fifi. I believe he is using the double prussic as the arresting component when either aiding or freeing. I think that a standard prussic, not kleimheist (sp?) or french, will lock off quick and not burn as Dru suggests. Plus, having two provides a back-up. Â I think that I will go out and test this....with a sack of flour or two.... Quote
Ed_Hobbick Posted February 17, 2006 Author Posted February 17, 2006 The problem I've had with the clove hitch is underestimating the distance to the next stance when making a free move and then getting about 7/8th of the way there when the rope comes tight. Quote
AFIVE Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 The problem I've had with the clove hitch is underestimating the distance to the next stance when making a free move and then getting about 7/8th of the way there when the rope comes tight. Â Somestimes if you connect the clove hitch to two locking biners, it doesn't lock off as much with rope weight and still locks off when you fall on it. The Silent partner is the best for this because of it's large diameter wheel which keeps the clove hitch feeding rope smoothly, much better than the two biners. When you take a fall the wheel locks off like a seatbelt mechanism in a car and lets the clove hitch lock off. Are you mainly going to aid or free climb? This is the best for free climbing because you can take a fall in any orientation and the "Silent Partner" will lock off. The "Soloist" will also feed rope smoother than a clove hitch, but won't catch an upside down fall. If you are aiding, then the self feeding rope isn't as important. The clove hitch or "Solo Aid" are a bit smaller in the front of your harness and do require self feeding a bit, but still hold falls in an upsidedown orientation. I have never tried the prussik method above, but would reccomend using "dynamic prussik cord" if you were to do it that way. Yates and Bluewater have dynamic prussik cords. Quote
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