catbirdseat Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 One occasionally encounters the words "bouldery start" in guide books. Often this means that the opening moves are way harder than the rest of the climb. So for some reason, the climb gets rated based not on its hardest moves, but on the majority of the climbs not counting the start. An example of this is Cat Burglar, 5.6 at Castle Rock, Tumwater Canyon. The rating is accurate if you don't count the first move. Another example is Celestial Groove, 5.9, Pearly Gates, Icicle Canyon. The start is much harder than 5.9, in my opinion. I'd like to start a discussion by asking what does "bouldery start" mean to you? Does it just mean "harder than the rest" or does it mean something else like "more steep" or tricky. Can you come up with more examples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 i always take "bouldery" as "unprotected"...ie you are bouldering for a ways at the grade of the route until you can get sumpin' in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Bring em on! I have a big crashpad. Seriously though, with stick clips and other trickery, is there really a boulder start left? Why should it be reflected in the grade of the route? I mean if you have a 1 move V2 off the ground and then a 5.7 crack above is it more accurate to call it 11a or 5.7 with a boulder start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Seriously though, with stick clips and other trickery, is there really a boulder start left? The Regular Route @ Careno Crag. I think I had to make running leap from a neighboring boulder to start that one. No bolts to clip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 I think Penny Lane in Squish was described this way. a 5.8/9 great crack the whole way up, after some trickier unprotected moves off the deck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Its not unprotected - you can put some nuts in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Its not unprotected - you can put some nuts in. or a bomber green alien. Phlemish dance. Clean and Jerk. (j-tree) Crime of the Century. angle crack every boulder problem ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted December 12, 2005 Author Share Posted December 12, 2005 (edited) Bring em on! I have a big crashpad. Seriously though, with stick clips and other trickery, is there really a boulder start left? Why should it be reflected in the grade of the route? I mean if you have a 1 move V2 off the ground and then a 5.7 crack above is it more accurate to call it 11a or 5.7 with a boulder start. It's a good thing that your 5.7 doesn't have a bouldery finish. It's okay if you can't get off the ground but a lot worse if you have to resort to aid or lower off because you can't finish. By the way, how do you stick clip if there aren't any bolts? Edited December 12, 2005 by catbirdseat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 The start of the Bale Kramar is the hardest moves on the whole route IMHO "5.9+" Seems like there is a 5.10b in the Gorge (Hand Job?) with a pretty bouldery start...Mikey had to aid through I've seen lots of parties fall off first few moves of Edible Panties ... I did it myself once while soloing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 D'oh! "Bouldery" has nothing to do with putting in pro, you yutzes; it's all about the fiercetude of the climbatorial movementations. All-out huckin', slappin', and crankin' all qualify for boulderosity. Repent, ye fools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 How can they call it a boulder start if you don't have to sit down to do the first move? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punter Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 I agree with Squid on Bale Cramer. Seems harder than 5.9+ Dru. I'd give the start V2+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 hand job in ze gorge is a touch bouldery. but you can't sit-start it like cornercopia (which is also a touch bouldery) wedding day at smith - lame ass boulder start into 10ish slick slab kitty milkin' nubbin pinching....sweeeeeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 wedding day at smith - lame ass boulder start into 10ish slick slab kitty milkin' nubbin pinching....sweeeeeet A classic! That route should be renamed "Gumby-spanker!" Too many asses in the dirt and frustrated parties shuffling off to something less in-yer-face to count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 and if you survive the boulder start there is still the risk you will puke on the holds you need from the overall lamosity of the experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punter Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Heresy @ Smith starts out with a nice boulder problem that doesn't really feel consistent with the rest of the route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 what? heresy is a boulder problem and the last move is the hardest one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Its not unprotected - you can put some nuts in. oh, well i guess i forgot. Why do you think the book lists it as a bouldery start then... just harder right off the bat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted December 12, 2005 Author Share Posted December 12, 2005 So which is is boys? Can bouldery mean either poorly protected or hard start, or both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 It just means harder start. Protection has nothing to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 It means the difficulty is such that it's hard to clip a shoulder-length runner to the pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punter Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Cobra Comm. - I agree that it is a short route but, I'd love to watch you send it without a rope. Let me know before hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 So, if you have a 5.8 handcrack with some .10 moves off the ground, it's a 5.8 climb, but put the moves just before the end of the route, and it's 5.10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 what? heresy is a boulder problem and the last move is the hardest one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 shit i forgot about hand job at smith. and bale kramer. those are mega stout starts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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