bunglehead Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Man, I try REALLY hard to dig his music, but I just can't get over what a huge ego he had. I've tried sooo hard to get into "Filles De Kilimanjaro" but when Chick Corea comes on, I'm done. "Directions in Music by Miles Davis" Fusion by and large fucking blows. If I never hear another looong winded noodly solo ever again, it'd be too soon. We now return to your partisan bickering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ireneo_Funes Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 You've got to listen to Bitches' Brew, Agartha and Pangaea before you write off Miles' fusion expeditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Miles Davis can almost be thought of as several musicians, rather than one. He was constantly remaking himself and moving from one style to another. He never stood still. Every albumn is different from the one before it. If you don't like one of them, chances are you'd like some of the others. I agree with you about his arrogance. I read his biography. He was not a likeable person. I can easily look past all that, because he was such a great musician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Oh please. If I couldn't get over a man's arrogance I would never get a second date. You guys crack me up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 My opinion (which is all that really matters), is that Bitches Brew is pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 It's not just arrogance, it is contempt. You have to read the biography to understand. He was a very bitter man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisT Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Well that just pisses me off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 I LOVE bitter people!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunglehead Posted September 27, 2005 Author Share Posted September 27, 2005 You've got to listen to Bitches' Brew, Agartha and Pangaea before you write off Miles' fusion expeditions. I have listened to these records, and I still get "Meh". I absolutley love the Miles stuff with "The Rhythm Section" Steamin, Cookin, With John Coltrane, Milestones, Miles Ahead, that stuff is excellent. I don't know, the only fusion-ey thing he's done that I like is Jack Johnson. I can't quite put my finger on it. It's almost like he was trying to play catch up with what was hip back then. Like he was so caught up in his own shit he looked around one day and realized that music had already started going in different directions, a lot of them not in jazz. Then again, I guess that's the danger of being labeled the "Next Big Thing" Things like turning your back to the audience and having huge photos of yourself in in your own apartment, it's like wearing the t-shirt of the band you're going to see. He was really arrogant. Then again, maybe it's just my reaction to some of his fans and some critics who feverishly srgue that he's the Jedi Master of All of Jazz. Some Miles fans are like Pat Metheny's fans. There's just no reasoning with them. Maybe I can't seperate all of it, I just know I try really hard to dig some of his later stuff. I always feel like an armchair critic with this. I mean I never knew the guy, and I'm positive he had a ton of bullshit he had to deal with. Maybe, like a lot of us, he just got jaded and said "Fuck it" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehead Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 The music was using a bitter man as a vehicle for its expression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Drive it baby. Drive it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunglehead Posted September 27, 2005 Author Share Posted September 27, 2005 Weird.. Where'd Mr Natural's post disappear to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Hopefully back up his ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 He definitely had a big attitude, but lots of musicians did and still do. In addition to Bitches Brew, In a Silent Way is a terrific "fusion" album. It has an incredible cast, as well: * Miles Davis - trumpet * Wayne Shorter - soprano saxophone * John McLaughlin - electric guitar * Herbie Hancock - electric piano * Chick Corea - electric piano * Joe Zawinul - organ * Dave Holland - bass * Tony Williams - drums I think In a Silent Way was Miles' first real electric album and it was highly criticized at the time by some who said he had "sold out." It is far easier to listen to, very understated, in comparison to Bitches Brew which came next. I liked fusion at the time, but most of it didn't hold up - at least for me. I still listen to In a Silent Way and Bitches Brew quite a bit. For an earlier album, I like Kinda Blue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ireneo_Funes Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Maybe Miles was a bitter, arrogant, contemptuous guy in person, but that doesn't affect my appreciation for his music. I wonder how many great musicians were really likeable people? I don't even think that Miles fully realized what he was doing for jazz music, but just as with the likeability question, who cares what his intent was? One of the things I really like about those 3 albums, and some other stuff he did around that same time, like Live-Evil, is that they really have a spacy, impersonal quality to them, like it's just instruments talking, not musicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 The Bill Laswell dub remix of Miles' canon is pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunglehead Posted September 27, 2005 Author Share Posted September 27, 2005 I like "In a Silent Way" also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 * Miles Davis - trumpet * Wayne Shorter - soprano saxophone * John McLaughlin - electric guitar * Herbie Hancock - electric piano * Chick Corea - electric piano * Joe Zawinul - organ * Dave Holland - bass * Tony Williams - drums Every one of those guys is a great musician in his own right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seawallrunner Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 (edited) > Some Miles fans are like Pat Metheny's fans comparing the fans of a genius to those of a minor jazz footnote? for shame!! now *I'm* bitter Edited September 27, 2005 by seawallrunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 * Miles Davis - trumpet * Wayne Shorter - soprano saxophone * John McLaughlin - electric guitar * Herbie Hancock - electric piano * Chick Corea - electric piano * Joe Zawinul - organ * Dave Holland - bass * Tony Williams - drums Every one of those guys is a great musician in his own right. They went on to be the leaders of several of the most popular fusion bands for the next ten years. For those who don't recognize the name, Zawinul was the keyboard player for Weather Report. Tony Williams didn't become as popular as the others - he had an eerie and strange taste in music that made him harder to listen to, and much of what Dave Holland did as a band leader was a little too abstract for most fans but I think some of his stuff was really terrific - though it was less fusion and more "free jazz." He played base on all kinds of great fusion stuff with Wayne Shorter, Chick Corea, etc., but I liked the free jazz stuff with Anthony Braxton and Sam Rivers. I think you had to see it live to gain an understanding of it, though -- then the recordings took more life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunglehead Posted September 27, 2005 Author Share Posted September 27, 2005 (edited) comparing the fans of a genius to those of a minor jazz footnote? for shame!! now *I'm* bitter Sorry, I couldn't resist. I just remember when Metheny came out with "Zero Tolerance for Silence" all of his fans I knew were stunned. Like they'd been slapped with divorce papers. they walked around in a daze. It was fucking awesome. Edited September 27, 2005 by bunglehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 (edited) I agree with Bunglehead Jack Johnson is the best of his fusion soon to be funk albums. JM’s guitar on the first side of JJ is amazing. One thing about these albums (IASW, BB JJ) that does bug me a bit is that they are totally studio creations. The amount of editing is amazing. Compare to "Emergency" which was created in a couple of days the difference is obvious. Less of an on the edge feel. Edited September 27, 2005 by Peter_Puget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunglehead Posted September 27, 2005 Author Share Posted September 27, 2005 Dave Holland is a monster. I've seen him twice in the last 3 years, and his level of musicianship is mind boggling. His entire band was insane. That guy is one of the best old schoolers out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 I like about half of that Jack Johnson release. I guess that is not a bad average for recodings from that school of music. For the JazzFunk, Head Hunters is pretty good, though certainly "dated." The early Funkadelic stuff had some jazzy elements to it, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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