What the %$#& Do we Know?

[Blake]

maybe that's how Danny H.0Wit is so fast, he just thinks about gum drops and teddy bears, and the ice crystals in snow propel him up the mountain?

[archenemy]

I am not a scientist. But I did read the report on the water deal, and it was interesting. I also read the deal about the meditation thing. Again, interesting correlation.

Of course, even a non-scientist knows correlation does not imply causation.

 

But then, how can anything ever really be proven. Except that I heart the Huckabees.

[foraker]

I'm having trouble giving you specific answers to your questions because I had to give myself a mental enema to get rid of the new-age tripe that movie was pushing.

 

meditation + crime rates: difference between correlation and causality anyone? if you do the experiment once, and it happes to work out, that's called correlation. statistically, your error bars are huge. now, if you'd done that experiment 100 times and got the same result, I might be inclined to be a bit more curious about it.

[Mr._Natural]

oh my dog, have you guys read this yes? Its sooooo gooooood. barf.

[Mr._Natural]

or the one about the monk who shreds the sick pow on everest? am i getting warmer?

[sexual_chocolate]

so you are saying that it has been scientifically proven that we can use thought to transform the phyiscal properties of elements around us, dependably and within a series of hours?

 

 

In other news, I'll be freeing City Park tomorrow, by just thinking happy thoughts, and imagining some nice big holds. I might solo-downclimb it afterwards.

 

 

Your ability to do thus would depend greatly on your ability to believe that indeed it might be possible.

 

I think what the emotive reaction to the movie might be partly based on is the fact that we are highly conditionable creatures who depend on this conditionability for our very survival. If something begins to disturb our sense of our chosen or unconsciously adopted collective zeitgeist of our time, we naturally react in a very defensive manner, hostile to the intrusion. We will use anger, innuendo, threats, outright violence to deflect from that which so threatens us.

 

We see it so clearly when it's someone like Pat Robertson or George Bush who does it, but are we able to see when WE do it? Probably not, cuz it's so much easier to point our finger at others. but what we forget is that when we point a finger at others, there are THREE pointing at us.

 

My point is that indeed the movie was a rather blithe failure in the department of sharp pointy witty pieces of film-reel such as I heart Huckabees, but it still brings up some things that I find beyond fascinating, and I truly don't give a shit if the whole thing was bank-rolled by Ramtha the Warrior himself.

[Dru]

The Rock Jedi's Way by Arno Skywalker

[Blake]

From Salon.com

 

Later in the film, a "scientist" explains that, thanks to the strangeness quivering below the subatomic level, meditating monks have lowered the crime rate in Washington, D.C. But not until the end of the film do we learn that the scientist making this claim, John Hagelin -- who once ran for president -- conducted the research while teaching (until 1999) at Maharishi University, the school named for the Beatles' guru.

[archenemy]

Salon is the last word in scientific study to be sure.

[sexual_chocolate]

Should the fact that he taught at Maharishi automatically discredit him?

 

I would think that true scientific method dictates an analysis of hypotheses, not discreditation based on the source of said hypotheses.

 

Now do I personally believe that a group meditation lowered the crime rate somewhere? That'd be a tough one to prove, even if a correlation existed.

I WOULD assert that if you could get everyone in NY to meditate for one hour at the same time, NY would experience NO CRIME during that hour.

[ChrisT]

I *loved* this movie. haven't seen the other one you speak of.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

And some like their "science" in a paticularly dumbed-down and flakey form.

 

You seem to be having great trouble answering my above question regarding the particular points made in the movie that you deem fallacious.

 

You are beginning to sound like Pat Robertson, relying on emotive innuendo devoid of substance.

 

You hit the nail on the head.

[archenemy]

And some like their "science" in a paticularly dumbed-down and flakey form.

 

You seem to be having great trouble answering my above question regarding the particular points made in the movie that you deem fallacious.

 

You are beginning to sound like Pat Robertson, relying on emotive innuendo devoid of substance.

 

You hit the nail on the head.

This from a guy who thinks Hitler was elected?

[foraker]

Exactly

[KaskadskyjKozak]

This from a guy who thinks Hitler was elected?

 

He was through his party's victory. Go read a history book. Dru's posting on the other thread is just an exercise in useless semantic games, meant merely to obfuscate - modus operandi for liberals.

 

Just because Chavez was "elected" does not mean the process was anywhere near to the principles of democracy, nor is he given a carte blanc to act however he wishes once he gained power.

 

You liberals are so f**ked in the head with your rationalizations that it's unbelievable.

Edited September 27, 2005 by KaskadskyjKozak

[archenemy]

And your assumptions are laughable.

[sexual_chocolate]

This from a guy who thinks Hitler was elected?

 

He was through his party's victory. Go read a history book. Dru's posting on the other thread is just an exercise in useless semantic games, meant merely to obfuscate - modus operandi for liberals.

 

Just because Chavez was "elected" does not mean the process was anywhere near to the principles of democracy, nor is he given a carte blanc to act however he wishes once he gained power.

 

You liberals are so f**ked in the head with your rationalizations that it's unbelievable.

 

Yeah I also thought Hitler was pretty much elected? Certainly he had much appeal to the lower middle class, regardless, and the business elite....

 

But, how was the political process in Venezuela not in accordance with the "principles of democracy"? Curious about your take on that....

 

Also, is the course of action he is following not the one that was his platform during the election process? I have personally not found any inconsistencies....

[sobo]

Yeah I also thought Hitler was pretty much elected?

 

not exactly...

 

...For Adolf Hitler, the goal of a legally established dictatorship was now within reach. On March 15, 1933, a cabinet meeting was held during which Hitler and Göring discussed how to obstruct what was left of the democratic process to get an Enabling Act passed by the Reichstag. This law would hand over the constitutional functions of the Reichstag to Hitler, including the power to make laws, control the budget and approve treaties with foreign governments...

 

...On March 23, the newly elected Reichstag met in the Kroll Opera House in Berlin to consider passing Hitler's Enabling Act. It was officially called the "Law for Removing the Distress of the People and the Reich." If passed, it would in effect vote democracy out of existence in Germany and establish the legal dictatorship of Adolf Hitler.

 

It was not so much that Hitler was elected Chancellor (he was not), but his party (the Nazi Party) won the election and he was appointed Chancellor by Hindenburg (with concessions to Hindenburg's current government and the people of Germany- which he later broke) in a coalition/divided Reichstag. The Nazis only won their seats in the Reichstag with less than 45 percent of the vote.

 

Hitler's "Enabling Act" was passed overwhelmingly (based largely on his false promises and his capitalizing on the public's fears of communism) and...

 

...Democracy was ended. They (the Nazis) had brought down the German Democratic Republic legally. From this day onward, the Reichstag would be just a sounding board, a cheering section for Hitler's pronouncements...

 

archenemy is correct; Hitler was not elected, although his party rose to power legally, and after being legally appointed Chancellor of Germany, Hitler legally removed democracy from German politics through the passage of his Enabling Act, which made him Chancellor and President all in one, effectively creating the dictator that we all read of today.

 

Hitler bypassed the election process by using the fear of the times to force the legal passage of his Enabling Act. But all of this by no means constitutes being "elected."

 

Much, much much more here.

[Ireneo_Funes]

It's important to remember that Germany in the 20s and 30s was a pretty screwed up place.

[Dru]

Yeah, having the Supreme Court judge that your party appointed, declare you President instead of mandating a recount is so much more logical.

[Ireneo_Funes]

c'mon, like that would ever happen!

[sobo]

It's important to remember that Germany in the 20s and 30s was a pretty screwed up place.

 

No doubt it was. But it seemed to me like some history lessons needed clarifying.

[bunglehead]

Yeah, having the Supreme Court judge that your party appointed, declare you President instead of mandating a recount is so much more logical.

 

There is absolutely no fucking way that could ever happen here.

[archenemy]

Yeah, having the Supreme Court judge that your party appointed, declare you President instead of mandating a recount is so much more logical.

 

The really cool part is that after that happens, you get to replace a couple of the geezers with more people from your party who are even more conservative than the last batch!

[Dru]

Oh well, all you get do do up here is stack the Senate with your personal appointees. But that's Ok because the Senate serves no known purpose or function, so its not like they can make a difference!