$17 minimum wage in Seattle

[Gary_Yngve]

is necessary, according to one of the mayoral candidates

 

[Dave_Schuldt]

Hell, I live on less than that just fine.

[Gary_Yngve]

Yep, I think folks are just fucking spoiled.

[JayB]

Given the level of economic literacy that prevails in Seattle, I would be astonished if this proposition doesn't receive widespread support.

 

However, if it's appropriate to determine wages by popular vote, rather than by the economic value that a given individual is capable of generating with the skills, training, equipment, etc that he has at his disposal, in conjunction with the effective demand for whatever it is that he's producing - then I am not sure why a minimum wage of $17 per hour is any less unreasonable than $100 per hour. Utopia is just a city-council vote away....

 

I actually hope whoever it is that proposed this gets elected and his or her suggestion is implemented - it'd be a great lesson in applied economics.

[sexual_chocolate]

Who needs a minimum wage at all?

 

In a free-market system, wage should be entirely determined by those with the jobs to give. Why should the government be stepping on the businessman's toes?

 

I'm tired of paying my guys 7.60 an hour, when I know very well that they would work for 4.00 an hour because they need the work.

 

Again, the government stepping in with their do-good liberal ideas, and taking money out of my pocket.

I'm sick of it, as should be any freedom loving american.

 

The free-market has proven itself capable of providing for the people, nay, the free-market has proven itself able to provide the LEVEL PLAYING FIELD so the people can take care of themselves!, so let's let it do its job.

[Gary_Yngve]

In that case, you believe that ending minimum wage would reduce unemployment dramatically?

[EWolfe]

I'm tired of paying my guys 7.60 an hour, when I know very well that they would work for 4.00 an hour because they need the work.

 

[sexual_chocolate]

I am not a proponent of unfettered free-market capitalism as it is being practiced globally and locally by the powers that be. My above comments were (almost) entirely facetious.

 

As to your question: Unemployment figures are a misleading indicator of quality of life. 0% unemployment would NOT necessarily be indicative of an optimal socio-economic condition (although it would be great propaganda for those benefitting most from the current "system").

[olyclimber]

like the measurement of "new job" growth is what is important? I'd like to see any of you live on $4 an hour in the Seattle area.

[klenke]

"...live on $4 an hour in the Seattle area."

An impossibility for a Seattleite.

Seattleite: one grande latte w/ flavor per hour.

One grande latte w/ flavor: $3.50

With mandatory liberal Seattle tip: $4.00

 

Nope, you just can't live off $4/hour in Seattle.

[prole]

Yeah man, fuck the minimum wage! The people who WORK in Seattle don't necessarily have to LIVE in Seattle! Hell, we can just truck the janitors, food-service workers, greenskeepers, etc. into our air-conditioned domed campuses (where the real wealth of society is created!) on steerage containers from E. Washington! Better yet, they can just live in the mobile containers and be trucked from place to place to work as the market demands! Yeah, cuz they don't like have any marketable skills anyway so FUCK THEM!

[sexual_chocolate]

Hey I think you might be missing the point here. People speak of naiveties like "structural unemployment" and "strucural underemployment"; hah, what a load of crap.

All you have to do is better your skill-set and get out there and get to work.

 

Because I guarantee you that once everyone has the adequate training, education, etc., then EVERYONE will have a well-paying job. That's the way it works in a free-market system.

[sexual_chocolate]

Then you don't need government meddling with their misguided socialist programs like "minimum wage" and health-care and social security, because everyone will be able to take care of themselves, due to their expanded skill-set.

[prole]

While I agree with your point that unemployment is inevitable and even desirable in capitalist economies, it seems to me that the point of raising mininmum wage in Seattle has less to do with full, un, or underemployment than the realities of urban geography in the context of a highly stratified labor market. A large number of people that can't afford to live in the places they work.

[ashw_justin]

We're looking at the wrong side of things. What we need to do, is REDUCE the MAXIMUM wage. Stop letting execs pay themselves millions, and force companies to divert profits back to the workers.

 

That way exploiting the worker = paying them more.

[sexual_chocolate]

Well then they shouldn't live here. Like Gary Yngve said, they're just spoiled.

Nothing worse than a spoiled brat with a sub-standard skill-set who doesn't understand free-market principles. And Seattle is full of those, from what I hear.

[sexual_chocolate]

Reduce maximum wage? That is so un-free-market capitalism of you. I hope you don't call yourself an American.

[prole]

"Hey Mike, the cleaning crew is here! Could you let them in?"

 

Edited September 11, 2005 by prole

[ashw_justin]

I hope you don't call yourself an American.

 

You know, Canadians and Cubans are Americans, too. ahahahaha

[Fairweather]

The minimum wage is certainly not a living wage. Nor is it intended to be. My daughter is earning minimum wage working summers between the school year. She is gaining valuable real-world experience that she can use at a future time to demonstrate she isn't just another lazy kook from acedemia who believes she has all the answers to the ills facing society....a society in which some (read: ivory tower; tenure) have so obviously never really participated.

[Gary_Yngve]

$17 / hr * 40 hrs / wk * 50 wks / yr = $34000 / yr.

 

That means that someone coming out of college (acquiring say $100000 in debt) would have to work for seven years earning double to break even with the person who got a job straight out of HS. Or maybe the govt should also provide free education?

 

And the latte... If an emploee makes 17 lattes per hour, e.g. one every 3-4 minutes, there's $1 of labor going per latte.

[prole]

The minimum wage is certainly not a living wage. Nor is it intended to be. My daughter is earning minimum wage working summers between the school year. She is gaining valuable real-world experience that she can use at a future time to demonstrate she isn't just another lazy kook from acedemia who believes she has all the answers to the ills facing society....a society in which some have so obviously never really participated in.

 

Uhh...whatever.

A. Your comment on the "intention" of minimum wage is ridiculous. It doesn't merit a response.

B. If you can back up any of the comments directed at me(?) with any evidence whatsoever, I'll give you $5. Good Luck.

P.S. Your "attack only when attacked" strategy that you seem to take so much pride in just went up in smoke (again).

[Fairweather]

Why, j_b! I wasn't attacking anyone in particular. Why would you think that? Unless, just maybe, the shoe fits.

 

BTW; keep your five dollars. Buy yourself some ramen noodles, or something that harkens poverty.

[sexual_chocolate]

Why yes I do believe that government (we the people) should provide free education to those desiring it! As a matter of fact we do, but then at college level, we stop. Hmmmm, and education is becoming increasingly expensive, less affordable by those in already impoverished conditions, furthering the cycle of poverty in an increasingly competitive society. Certainly the type of society we all desire, right? Compete with your neighbor for a slice of the (arbitrary) pie....

 

It's kinda funny. I read history, political theory, etc., and am continually struck by how the middle class can be so easily manipulated into supporting corporatist business agendas that do nothing but harm them in the end. Haven't you read about the shrinking middle class? The increased work hours? Decreased vacation time?

 

It's a strange economic system that has developed, and it's even stranger how the very people being hurt by it can be manipulated into supporting it.

[sexual_chocolate]

And Fairweather, you should read about the history of Minimum Wage laws. Perhaps you'd reconsider your statement.