Getting a proper sleeping bag

[andrewbanandrew]

Since I only did backpacking and carcamping for the longest time (and mostly in the summer, for that matter), I bought the cheapest synthetic sleeping bag I could find. It's an off-brand one made by a company called PRIME USA. I don't remember what it was rated to nor, I just remember it being cheap. Currently it takes up about a third of the volume in my 50L pack which is mildly annoying, even for backpacking.

 

Anyway, I'd like to replace it with something I could use for short alpine trips. I don't know much about alpine climbing since I've just started, so that's why I'm posting here.

 

From my searches I've gathered that:

 

Down is a lot lighter and a lot more compressible than synthetic insulation but if it gets wet you're going to hate life. Synthetic supposedly retains ~60% of its insulating properties even when wet. Down lasts a lot longer. Primaloft seems to be the best synthetic insulation?

 

There are ten million different shell fabrics (Pertex, E-VENT, etc) and I don't know how to tell them apart. Temp ratings seem to be kinda arbitrary although total weight of insulating material used has a lot to do with it.

 

I would personally rather buy a synthetic bag because it could perceivably do double duty for backpacking where I've gotten rained on, a lot. However I really don't know what to go with.

 

I was looking at three synthetic bags that seemed promising, the Renaissance made by Integral Designs, one made by Marmot (Pounder Plus, I think...nobody knows anything about it apparently), and another made by REI (Nooksack UL +10). I think all of these were in the 20-25 degree range, and about the same weight.

 

The ID and REI bags look to be warmer and heavier than the Marmot bag, but if the Marmot bag is as warm as the other two and as light as the other two then that'd be neat (doubtful since I think they all use Primaloft Sport). I'd like to go try on all of these before I buy them. It seems like if the short version of the Renaissance fits me it'd be ideal.

 

BUT if I am misguided in my thinking about what class of bag I need, none of this matters at all. So, any advice?

[cook]

I use a +20 down bag from REI in the alpine that I really like, but as you said, it does suck when wet. I used my girlfriend's Marmot +15 primaloft bag in the winter once and it worked awesome. I would crawl into that bag soaking wet and it would dry me and some clothes out. My buddy kept getting pissed though because It would steam up the tent so much and get everything else wet instead.

[Dirtyleaf]

My first two bags I got were synthetic. They were rated at 20 and 0 degrees. Sure they keep you warm when they are damp but they lose about 10percent of their loft the first couple of times that you use a compression sack. Which you basically have to because they are so huge. The 2 bags I currently use are Feathered Friends Vireo, and Hummingbird. The Vireo weighs in at 20 oz. and packs smaller than a loaf of bread and worn with either a down jacket or warm fleece will keep you comfortably warm down to the thirties. I also used this bag on a 500+ mile section hike on the Appalachian Trail. It has an Epic shell which is almost weatherproof and highly breatheable. The only downside to this bag is that it doesn't have a zipper or a hood. The hummingbird has a 3/4 sip and epic shell. It has kept me warm down to the twenties and kept me dry. I sleep under a tarp versus a tent which is lighter and veltilates much better than a tent so there is no condensation problems. Anyway these bags are awesome and I would recommend them to anyone for anything. Westernmountaineering also makes some of the best down bags out there. I was a skeptic until I switched to down, now I'll never go back.

[cook]

Dirtyleaf is right about synthetics losing loft. I had a zero degree synthetic bag from the REI garage sale that would lose loft everytime I'd put it in my pack for a trip. Anytime the temps would drop below 30 I'd be curled into the fetal position around a nalgene bottle of boiling water.

[andrewbanandrew]

Hmm I suppose it is between keeping meticulous habits when using a down bag or buying a new synthetic bag every couple of seasons, eh?

[Dirtyleaf]

Pretty much. A synthetic bag is better for very wet climates but a down bag with a bivy sack(and being very careful with how you use it) is just as good. The other thing is that a synthetic bag will lose its loft every time you pack it and wash it. Say it would last you 2-3 years. A down bag on the other hand will last you 10+ years with washing and will not lose loft. More expensive but certainly worth it in the long run. Just my 2 cents.

[Airborn_69]

If you prespire a lot or wet weather conditions, get a synthetic with a good bivy bag...Cannot go wrong with this & I have tried this system in the army & on my climbs & it is bombproof....Down is warmer yes! But for maybe a day or so after it is dampened even with a bivy.

 

Go Synthetic!

[Redoubt]

I would personally rather buy a synthetic bag because it could perceivably do double duty for backpacking where I've gotten rained on, a lot.

If you need it to do double duty, and you get rained on a lot, maybe synthetic is best. But what kind of alpine climbing will you be doing? For 95% of what I do, I'm only out one night. Down is lighter and smaller and I don't really care if it gets a bit damp overnight because I won't need it the next night. I also go with down anytime the weather looks dry, regardless of how many nights I'm out. I have a light synthetic bag, but I only use it if I'll be out more than one night AND think that I'll likely get wet AND think that I'll be miserable without a completely dry bag (not the case a good part of the year). I end up rarely using my synthetic.

 

Sometimes lack of cash requires that one piece of gear has to work for different uses, and each use ends up being a compromise. But if you have the bucks, get a good down bag for most of your alpine stuff and a synthetic for your backpacking.

[IceIceBaby]

If you prespire a lot or wet weather conditions, get a synthetic with a good bivy bag...Cannot go wrong with this & I have tried this system in the army & on my climbs & it is bombproof....Down is warmer yes! But for maybe a day or so after it is dampened even with a bivy.

 

Go Synthetic!

[JoshK]

Go with down. It's all about learning how to use your gear and the techniques required to keep it dry, etc. I have yet to find a synthetic bag that is remotely comparable. I've been rained on plenty but with setting up my shelter correctly and being careful to not overheat, touch tent walls too much, etc. I have never had a problem keeping my down bag warm and dry. If you like carrying extra weight and taking up more space, go synthetic.

[IceIceBaby]

Now how about that for oxymora

Proper technique:

• Sleep in a tent but don’t touch the walls
  A) You will need bigger tent--more weight …or
  B) You will need to futz around with a tarp--more time/Wight
  C) You will have a restless night after a day that well deserve sound rest in a fear of touching the walls.
  D) Impossible when using a bivysack
  
• not over heat
  You will have to wakeup in the middle of the night to adjust the clothing system and that is beside the fact that you really cannot pinpoint and maintain your optimal thermal output for a constant time.
  
• “I have never had a problem keeping my down bag warm and dry”
  “To each and its own” it is great if it works for you, I had a different experience.
  
• “If you like carrying extra weight and taking up more space, go synthetic.”
  When taking to account restless night, carrying a bigger tent, taking a tarp and taking the time to pitch and adjust it properly and not being able to use a bivysack only without feeling and being clammy and damp (in best case scenario) out weight the lightness of down. Try to sleep in a snow cave without a bivysack with only a trash bag and sleeping pad when using down --however with syntetic it works flawlessly.
  

I have five different sleeping bags and four of them are best quality down bags with all the bells and wistels. The only time that I will take the down is if I know for certain that I will not get rained on and the relative humidity is low. My true work horse is TNF syntetic bag that cost me $100 while a pound heavier and bulkier it save me time, sleep, and weight from other factors that make down useless.

[JoshK]

OK, since you would rather just debate it on an armchair level, I'll just cut to personal experience...

 

Wayne and I both took 1 POUND down bags on a traverse of the northern pickets. We were out 5 nights, we got rained on 3 of them, including HARD and all night one of them. We were in a BD lighthouse tent, made of Epic, and pitched with ski poles to save weight. It got wet. we STAYED WARM AND DRY. If we can managed to do it for five fucking nights in the middle of nowhere with the thinnest ass down bags on the planet then I think somebody can backpacking. If you can't manage a down bag in the wilderness, that's your fault, not the bag's.

[IceIceBaby]

It got wet. we STAYED WARM AND DRY...If you can't manage a down bag in the wilderness, that's your fault, not the bag's.

you see that is my point. but if it works for you than all power to you.

I canot sleep when my sleeping bag is wet and think a happy thoghts of warm and dry island. You see I’m only fat and unfit mortal

[JoshK]

Then it is settled, to each his own.

 

The reality actually is, if you can afford more than one bag, you'll always be carrying something a little more well suited to that particular trip. It is hard to find a true "do it all" bag if you really do like to concentrate on always going the lightest as possible while also being outside in adverse conditions at times.

[marylou]

I like down.

 

Primaloft is one of the nicest synthetic fills out there, if you swing that way, which I don't personally. I don't find it as warm (there is a thing about how they drape around your body) and also heavier for the warmth and way bulkier. I'm too lazy to go look it up, but if memory serves, it's the Primaloft One (as opposed to PL Sport) that's the higher end of the two, and I *think* that's what is in the Renaissance. The Ren is a nice bag, but it's cut small, so make sure it's suited to your build/needs.

[Nick]

Down bags don't really save weight 'cause you need to carry extra clothes. With a synthetic bag you can dry your clothes in the bag. Everybody likes down until, eventually, something goes wrong with the system for staying dry, then it gets ugly!

[SemoreJugs]

Hmmm. I never use my syn anymore. Never had a cold night in down. I even dry wet clothes in there and do okay. I use a bag that is 20 degrees. It has a zip off panel that makes it 0 degrees supposedly. Only need it in the winter on Rainier, etc. As long as I keep that layer unzipped, I can reliably dry my clothes while inside the bag. I think it only doesnt work in humid climates where moisture is not encouraged to diffuse away from your body. So Anywhere in the NW except maybe the olympics below the freezing level, down is my choice!!!!

 

Au naturale!!!

[thelawgoddess]

Down bags don't really save weight 'cause you need to carry extra clothes.

[allsetcobrajet]

It all depends on the kinds of conditions you find yourself in most often. If you only get out when the forecast is sun, sun, sun, then get a down bag. However, if you're out there rain or shine in the NW, a synthetic bag is a good choice. Face it, a 3-season bag in the NW is going to see a lot of rainy nights. However, with a 4-season bag, down is probably a better choice. If temps are consistently well below freezing, then you aren't going to see rain and the down bag will pack smaller and keep you warmer in those kinds of very cold conditions. I have 40-degree and 20-degree synthetic bags and one down -5 degree bag. You can easily get good "brand-name" synthetic bags on clearance for under $100. Then eventually get one really nice down winter bag for when it gets really cold and rain isn't as much of a factor. Good luck.

[bcollins]

2 words.......

Mtn Hardware Spectre. 800 fill down, conduit shell, taped seams. No bivi sack needed. Use due diligence, common sense and climb 4 seasons in the NW with it.

[bcollins]

oh but don't look at the price tag.................

[kioti]

HEY! I thought I heard barry was back in town. Unfortunatly I moved to Portland in June. Good to see you back near the Cascades.

 

As for Sleeping Bag, I put a vote in for the Marmot Helium EQ. More expensive than the Spectre, but lighter, Water Resistant, and 900 fill down. WOO

 

Alan