SOmeone hurt in leavenworth?

[freak]

I saw a chopper longline two people out of the sam hill trundle dome area today, one in a streacher(sp) IM hopeing it was just the mountain rescue guys practicing. I was far a way and couldent see exactly what was going on. ANy body know what happend?

thanks, freak

[Andy_Bourne]

Yea, we were right there up close as the chopper hauled out the litter. It was actually pretty amazing to watch. They did so many pick ups back and forth, we thought they were practicing too.

We were on Ski Tracks Crack when all the rescue guys came down off Sam Hill. We asked what happened and they said a guy took a ground fall and broke his leg on Box Spring Booty 10c/d. The first bolt is like 25 feet off the ground and it is pretty run out after it on slabby super thin edges. I think that if you get to the first bolt it would be hard to ground out, unless you are pulling in slack to clip the second.

I guess they used the chopper because it is kind of wet third class terrain to get to the climb. I still don't know why they made so many passes and pick ups.

[morsno]

Yes, I was there too. I was one of the guys on the end of the long line doing the rescue. First we flew over to check out the site, then took two rescuersin on seperate flights, and finally we took two flights to get the victim and the personnel out. Because of privacy questions,I can't divulge any info about exactly how the guy got hurt. I'll try to get his permission and fill you in later.

Tom Ettinger MD, Chelan County Mountain Rescue

[freak]

Theres gear before the first bolt on that climb, i led it two weeks ago, a horizontal crack takes good gear about 10 ft off the ground.I basically put in three pieces, the most sketchy part is above the first bolt I think cause theres like a thin wire placement that may hold a fall but your not going to hit the deck from there. Maybe he missed the gear at the bottom. OUch man that sucks, nic

[Andy_Bourne]

morsno, thanks for the reply. I think hearing what happened could be a good lesson for people, and maybe enough to keep someone else off the ground.

like freak said, there is good pro up to the first bolt (not to mention the climing isn't too hard) and after clipping it, seems like it would be hard to ground out. One of the guys walking down the trail after the rescue said it was a ground fall.

If you do get permission, let us know. By the way, that looked like a pretty hairy evacuation. Good job.

[erik]

andy,

were you coming down late from ski tracks? with a couple of females?

[Andy_Bourne]

yep.

[erik]

sorry if i was rude to the lead female, as i was trying to complete a marathon day and was short of everthing. but i did get my pitches in!

[Andy_Bourne]

If you want to send a personal message my email is andybourne@hotmail.com. Lets keep the thread to what the title is about.

I think you may be thinking of another group, I don't remember anyone doing or saying

anything rude to either of the girls. But if it was one of them, I'll tell them you said sorry.

 

[Andy_Bourne]

[This message has been edited by Andy Bourne (edited 05-01-2001).]

[viktor]

I heard that the climber in question rapped off his rope (one end was too short) he fell 20 feet and broke his leg. Apparently, he was an experienced climber and felt pretty humiliated about the whole ordeal. After this last weekend, that makes four accidents up the Icicle in the last 2 weeks. What gives? Aid vehicles passed me on Icicle Road on Saturday and on Sunday, there was definately a serious incident on Icicle Buttress. It appears the Mountaineers were involved, but I'm not sure.

[Doug]

Regardless of whether or not the climbing parties were or were not a Mountaineers party, there do seem to be a lot of accidents in the Icicle....

 

[goatboy]

There were very large parties in the Icicle over this past weekend (May 5-6). I'm guessing that it was the Mountaineers?

I saw a helicopter fly very low through icicle creek canyon towards leavenworth, coming from icicle buttress direction. Was that related to the accident?

I notice that the Mountaineers always have accident reports in the annual journal, Accidents in NA Mountaineering, but is that because they are accident-prone, or because they have so many people out that they're statistically bound to have accidents, or because they have under-prepared people leading the inexperienced, or because they are organized enough to actually submit accident reports (while many groups do not do so)?

In any case, I hope the injured party is recovering. Any update on that?

Steve

[viktor]

The guy on icicle buttress was on the chimney pitch of the R&D route (or off route), apparently fell, broke his jaw and sustained other non-fatal injuries. Glad to hear he'll recover but I saw some pretty distraught folks over there and thought someone had bought it for sure.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Ok I'll stick my neck out here as I feel obligated..

The Mtnrs seem to have swarmed the Icicle as usual every spring. Don't they have other areas to overpopulate instead of popular areas?! The impact they put on the parking areas are extreme as well. Forcing the inevitable future crackdown and resentment of local landowners which they are not the only ones guilty of this. I saw people camping on the private driveway across the Bridge Creek Campground this weekend too. If you want to preserve access and limit the amount of regulation there already is then why camp in these areas, and park 15 cars at turnouts when you can carpool?! Anyway back to the subject. I have been almost injured by 2 different parties dropping gear on 2 seperate incidents this year I also think that at times some of them are too inexperienced to be where they are. This is not all of them though. It becomes painfully obvious when it takes some of them 4 pitches to climb routes like Midway...

Someone internally in the Mtnrs should take notice of this and act if you ask me.

I think it may be partially correct to say that due to their numbers they are bound to have accidents and are good about reporting them as well.

 

[jblakley]

For the record:

I was in the party that the accident happened in and was involved in the subsequent rescue. We are not in the mountaineers. The girl involved in the fall was new to leading trad and was about 10 - 15 feet out over her last pc when she fell. Due to the nature of the route (R & D) she hit a big ledge. She banged up her face pretty well and may need surgery but will recover at least physically.

I just want to thank the individuals who responded (one in particular happened to be in the Tacoma Mountaineers). Numerous mountaineers got involved and were very eager to help. So anyone who helped out yesterday...thank you very much. Send me an e-mail so I can thank you personally. Oh yeah she also had a helmet on which probably saved her from much more serious injury or worse.

Jim Blakley

[Blue_Snow]

As far as I know, the injured climber on Icicle Buttress was not a Mountaineer but several Mountaineers were involved with the rescue.

[fredrogers]

El Captain Caveman-

Nothing personal taken- it's an open forum for the discussion of ideas. I wouldn't have posted if I didn't expect someone to disagree with me. That's no fun.

I agree completely that the Mountaineers have their shortcomings, as do the Mazamas or any organized group- professional- or volunteer. I got stuck behind a group from AAI on Baker last year and it drove me crazy to listen to a bunch of people whine about what they were doing even after they have paid for it!

I don't climb with the Mountaineers anymore, as I am also fortunate enough to have a small group of friends to climb with. Some aren't and a good option for them is the Mountaineers...

As far as the campsite thing goes, well, there's a shithead in every group.

Cheers.

[fredrogers]

oops. some how posted this one again.

[This message has been edited by fredrogers (edited 05-07-2001).]

[goatboy]

(I'm trying to edit an earlier post -- so I hope this doesn't just repeat the earlier post)

A point of clarification:

fredrogers mentioned that he has seen Outward Bound groups in the Icicle. I work for outward bound, and we do not take groups to leavenworth, nor have we in recent memory.

I know that NOLS does use icicle creek for their rock camps, though my guess is that they try to do so in a respectful way.

Many people confuse NOLS with Outward Bound, but they are separate schools.

Back to the point of this thread: Seeking instruction is good. Doing so in a way which creates large impact and potential conflict with land-owners in an already-touchy area is questionable judgment, because in addition to being instructed technically, I believe novice climbers need to be instructed as to the politics and responsibilities associated with being a climber. That includes being aware of the environment, of other people, and of the politics of climbing in protected areas or private property.

Steve

[This message has been edited by goatboy (edited 05-07-2001).]

[This message has been edited by goatboy (edited 05-07-2001).]

[nolanr]

I think several others had it right on, use of the back country and crag areas is increasing, so conflicts between users and number of accidents is going to increase. I've been stuck behind parties from the Mountaineers before, so I understand the frustration. It would be great if each of us could go where we wanted when we wanted without a crowd or waiting line. But that's not realistic. As experienced climbers, we all know areas to go to where it's guaranteed you won't run into anybody's Basic class and in some cases you won't run into anybody period. Those places are harder to get to and take more work, but if you want to be guaranteed solitude and a peaceful climbing experience in this day and age, you're going to have to work extra hard for it. That doesn't excuse anyone's bad manners or lack of understanding of climbing etiquette, but I think we're all just going to have to deal with it or limit ourselves to really remote areas.

[Cpt.Caveman]

I would never have guessed that reading the post previous to yours

[fredrogers]

Well, er, um, as a member of the climbing community, I understand some of the frustration with the Mountaineers for overpopulating the Icicle, as well as other climbing areas, with large groups of students. I was there 2 weekends ago and was unable to get on anything within 5 minute walking distance of the road. So, I walked further and had the place to myself and the people I was climbing with.

However, at least one of the groups that I ran across was a Boy Scout group (talk about scary- they were practicing rappelling off anchors built from a single tied runner) and have also come across groups from AAI, Outward Bound, etc. in the Icicle as well.

As a Mountaineer, I do know that there is an active attempt to limit the group's impact on the Icicle through carpooling (ever see those large groups standing around in the DOT lot in Leavenworth???) and consolidating tents at the campground. Granted, when you have 80 students, it makes it hard to consolidate anything.

The branches also try to coordinate their schedules so that only one branch at a time is in an area or on a particular peak. Not perfect in practice, but there is an active effort made.

They practice at the "popular" crags because there are good places for instruction, they're easy to get to, and they are "safe" in the sense that they are a know entity for many of the instructors (all volunteer, BTW). I see plenty of people dropping things and doing stupid, unsafe shit and I'd have to say that the majority of them aren't Mountaineers.

If anything, at least the students have made an active attempt to seek instruction, rather than going it on their own and really running the risk of hurting themselves or others.

Sure the Mountaineers have their problems. Having exchanged heated words with a basic climb leader on Ingalls Peak about their impact and lack of consideration for the 4 private parties on the route (mine included), I have been on the receiving end of the Mountaineers, too. But as a whole, I think that they do their best to provide instruction to people who are trying to learn to climb.

I think the major issue is that more and more people are getting out and it magnifies every the significance of user and impact.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Right on Fred,

I agree with you on some of your statements... My point was just a sample of facts as an outsider sees them. I climb with a loose group of partners and I would bother to argue some of your statements as well if I thought it would do any good... Yawn

I understand people needing\wanting instruction and that is fine by me. You however cannot explain or justify my negative experiences with some of these groups and what the heck were these boy scouts doing (don't answer that). Mtnrs not willing to let one of my partners sleep in a campsite where there was plenty of room due to their We are mtnrs get outta here attitude.

You seem compelled to stand up for the Mtnrs in general so I am focusing in on you here. Don't take it personal yet.

[Blue_Snow]

Yeah, he posted while I was registering, Cpt.Caveman