first glacier

[phouse]

is 30m enough rope for a two-man (gaining experience) glacier travel team?

 

background: my brother and I (he, Philly; me, DC) are spending two weeks in mid-August around Baker. The first week will be our collective first trip to a real glacier where we plan on practicing the things we've read in FOTH, The Mountaineers Handbook, and Selter's crevasse rescue book around Rainbow Glacier. That week will culminate in a summit attempt of Baker via the Park-Boulder Cleaver route. Second week we'll be working along the PCT with AHS doing trail maintenance.

 

I've got plenty of questions, this is just a first step.

[Macson]

I saw someone on Baker a few weeks ago with a 2 man team and one of those 30m ropes. They had it doubled between them so it was a 15M rope. I figured it must be some kind of suicide pact or something. Maybe it was a pre-rigged C system but they were so close together that they would both be in the hole before they knew it if one fell.

 

If I was a total newbie to glacier travel and was planning to go up there with only a 2 man team I think I'd...oh wait, I wouldn't go up there with that team. I can understand the desire to do it yourself, but I think you'd be wise to find at least one other person, preferably with crevasse rescue experience.

 

You have any short cliffs between Philly and DC? Try setting up your system and pulling your brother up the cliff using only what you'd have on the glacier. Even with a C-Z (assuming you can anchor and rig it by yourself after arresting a fall without killing him) pulling up 225 lbs of climber and gear is pretty tough for one guy. I think people have pretty good luck finding partners for this kind of thing on this site.

 

Or did I just fall for a troll?

[kurthicks]

The real question is can you arrest on glacier ice?

If not, they why use a rope at all?

 

For practicing crevasse rescue, it would be fine.

I just did the Adams Glacier in a party of 2 with a 20m rope. scary if one of us really fell in? yes. light? totally.

[Divot]

Sounds like you guys have done your homework and a rearing to go. Sounds like a fun time.

Those books are great for varied method learning.

 

As you said, you will be practicing alot of the things you have read, and I totally am an advocate of that in the right senario.

However,

30m Isnt enough. Its perfect for a perfect climb, however, 91+ft isnt enough for practicing C-Z-pulley systems, which is the "ideal" system for a 2 person team, and the extra 72+ ft if you are using a 60m rope is a little more security on your back in terms of a kiwi-coil.

A 30m rope will be ok, but wont give you the extra cushion

for playing, security, or being there for others when a rescue is on the plate and you guys are the only ones closest to help.

I even carry a 8.3 50m when I solo.....Just incase.

 

Sorry to stomp on the horse, but a little more rope will never hurt.

Edited July 13, 2005 by Divot

[phouse]

Thanks for the replies - much appreciated feedback.

 

Unfortunately the residuals from the hurricane will be sitting around all weekend BUT yes Macson, there are some crags (Great Falls) just a couple minutes out of DC we've spent some time at. We plan on getting together this weekend anyway and just practicing setup, rope management, etc (there's another recent thread on crevasse rescue floating around).

 

I think I'll pursue an 8-9mm 50m rope. Any suggestions? What experience do people have and think about the Mammut Universe and Genesis ropes, Blue Water Excellence, Beal Cobra II, and Sterling Marathon Half?

[ryland_moore]

I think the hardest thing to do is not necessarily arresting the fall, but setting the anchor while in arrest position. You will have to get out your picket, set a deadman and transfer the weight from your harness to a prussik on the rope. If you've never done this before, you will need to learn. Remember that time is everything when someone is down in the hole and injured. Hypothermia can set in quite rapidly if you are unable to extract your partner in a reasonable time (assuming he/she is unable to extract themselves by prussiking back up. Also, I have heard, but never visually observed, people tying butterfly knots every few feet in the rope when travelling in a two man rope team. The theory is that when one partner goes in, the knots will catch in the snow on the lip of the crevasse and reduce or prevent your partner from going further in. This of course would only theoretically work if the glacier was not dry. In August, this may be a moot point.

[phouse]

So what kind of glacier conditions can we expect in mid-August on Baker's N/NE/E faces? We're currently planning on spending time on the Rainbow or Mazama glaciers to practice and then will climb up the Park/Boulder Cleaver route.

 

Thanks for the info.

[catbirdseat]

I'd recommend you either pick up a third person for your rope team. Barring that, I'd suggest making arrangements to travel with another rope team you meet when you get to base camp.

[Divot]

How about avoiding the dice, and take a crevasse rescue coarse ith some good people in the area and get your hands dirty sorta speak.

 

That way, you will see what its like, get to really know other than figure it out, and just do it, and not rely on our opinions.

[AlpineK]

I'd recommend you either pick up a third person for your rope team. Barring that, I'd suggest making arrangements to travel with another rope team you meet when you get to base camp.

 

climbing on a glacier with 2 is much more advanced technique than climbing with 3. Not that you can't do it, but a third person would make the learning curve less steep.

[Dru]

climbing on a glacier with 2 is much more advanced technique than climbing with 3. Not that you can't do it, ...

 

especially using the advanced Alpine K crevasse detection technique

 

 

[phouse]

I've got a thread in the "Climbing Partners" forum ("Baker - third week of August") looking for a third.

 

I want to get back to a previous question I had (not answered)... what glacier conditions can we expect on Baker in the middle of August? Dry, wet, heavily crevassed, lots of hidden crevasses, good/bad/nonexistant snow bridges, etc??

 

A second questioned I'd asked was regarding a few kinds of ropes (see above) - any input/replies there? I'm leaning towards one of the Mammuts - any thoughts?

[Divot]

Conditions are not standard for terrain or season, sometimes they may be totally off the wall conditions for the season....who knows.........

 

 

Your dealing with nature, and not a terrain park, and if you have invested stock in our weather service here in the PNW it may be time to pull out.

 

 

But just to answer that question based on trends...............Look for a fews cracks and snow bridges which require a quick piss before you cross.

[Macson]

I would think you'd have lots of ice, exposed crevasses and no bridges this year in August, but that's pure speculation. I've only ever done Baker in June (twice).

 

As for rope, I just bought one of these, except 60M, for glacier use. I thought it was a pretty good deal with free shipping and no tax.

 

http://www.bentgate.net/dyn83x50mdry.html

[phouse]

Picked up a Mammut Genesis [Double Dry, 8.5mm, 60m] rope last night. Still pursuing a third person. Current plan is the Park/Boulder Cleaver Route (not a very technical route apparently).

 

Given the variability and uncertainty of the glacier(s) would it be prudent to buy/bring a couple ice screws?

 

If so, what are your recommendations on size, style, number, etc?

[Divot]

Ice srews are nice.....Get the longest ya can get, 'cause they can be used as short ones with the proper slingage....

 

I carry 2 Black Diamond Express Screws, a little pricey, but look at it this way.......Would you buy a cheap parachute if you were into skydiving...?

[AlpineK]

climbing on a glacier with 2 is much more advanced technique than climbing with 3. Not that you can't do it, ...

 

especially using the advanced Alpine K crevasse detection technique

 

 

 

Hey I learned all the rules before I started breaking them.

[sweatinoutliquor]

Picked up a Mammut Genesis [Double Dry, 8.5mm, 60m] rope last night.

 

Good call dude, I have one of these and I really like it. It wouldn't hurt to have a couple of screws... I would recommend something with an easy turn handle (like Black Diamond Turbo express, Petzl lasersonic or the Omega pacific screw with the knob) at 22cm in length. Especially if you are going to be setting up rescue practice anchors, there really isn't much that is more bomber than an ice screw placed in solid ice. Maybe just one each to start (they are pricy, but sometimes you can score deals on mgear.com etc.). The longer lengths are generally safer and in solid glacier ice (if you find any) they work awesome for rescue practice! Have fun and be safe out there!

[Divot]

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