PACK ANIMALS

[Dru]

Pack Animal Direct

[iceaxedave]

I guess Everest climbers who use porters and Yaks are cheating because they didn't carry all their gear themselves to their basecamp. Or Aconcagua climbers who use mules.

I suppose if I drive to paradise at Mount Rainier I am cheating because I used a car to drive the 160 miles to get there rather than hiked those miles with all my gear.

Didn't the early expeditions to Mount Rainier use horses just to get to the mountains? (Because there were no roads yet)

The choice to use pack animals to carry loads to base camp is an individual one based on ones own goals for the climb. I am astonished that there are some who feel offended at this option.

I know, if I become famous and publish a book I'll be sure to annotate my climb of MT. Olympus as a FAWLSTBC!

(First Ascent With Llama Support to Base Camp)

Thanks guys, you've really made me see the light

 

But serioulsy, Time is precious, and weather in the northwest changes rapidly. Given the choice, I'd rather have an enjoyable climb than a sufferfest.

[iceaxedave]

not have to worry about packing the extra food and fuel necessary for such a trip.

An extra 5-10lbs makes that big a difference? If you pay me 1/2 of what the outfitter costs I'll drag it up to the glacier for you.

 

How much can you carry?

Do you guarantee delivery?

Do you have a valid business license?

Are you bonded, insured, and Licensed?

What are your rates? Per person/Mile/Pound???

 

Can you give me quotes from three of your competitors? (I wouldn't want to pay too much now...)

[Dechristo]

I am astonished that there are some who feel offended at this option.

I've always had a hard time justifying the damage to the environment that occur with the use of pack animals. Their hooves tear up the ground much more than a hiker's feet accelerating erosion and increasing exponentially the need for trail maintenance. Your statement of "Didn't the early expeditions to Mount Rainier use horses just to get to the mountains? (Because there were no roads yet)" is pertinent and supplies, in itself, a justification of that time and a warning. Trails that are used extensively by pack animals become "roads", or at least mini-canyons for surface water run-off. In other areas of the world where trails are used by pack animals extensively, the trails often are the roads used by indigenous people. In our neck of the global woods, I am grateful we haven't paved over more trails and hope to see what smatterings and vestiges of wilderness preserved by, if nothing else, their remoteness.

 

Macson wrote:

I've... taken several extended back country trips with horses.

Getting to base camp with horses will always take as long, or longer than hopping out of your car, throwing the pack on and going.

Also, you've read testimonials to the contrary nature of llamas that would cause speculation of more time delay than when horses are used. And yet, you ignore these experienced voices by continuing to use time as a justification:

But serioulsy, Time is precious, and weather in the northwest changes rapidly.

 

Practically, your only justifications are if you are infirm and can't go the distance under your own power or you want to bring the cast-iron skillets, woodstove, and wall-tent. By this statement:

Given the choice, I'd rather have an enjoyable climb than a sufferfest.

it leads one to believe infirmity is the issue.

 

The choice to use pack animals to carry loads to base camp is an individual one...

And this is your credible justification. It's legal, and you are free to exercize this action. Please, stick exclusively to this justification... all the rest sound lame.

[slothrop]

I think if you bulk up enough, you'll be your own pack animal. I recommend supersets of squats to build those horse-like thighs.

[estivate]

Yeah but you can snuggle up with them at the bivi.

You forgot about keeping warm in blizzards by slitting open their bellies and diving into the entrails. If movies are to be believed, this is pretty common...

[Off_White]

The answer is a small army of rat terrier packdogs.

 

[Dechristo]

The answer is a small army of rat terrier packdogs.

 

One of these dogs has enough energy to approximate a pack; I know, I've got ONE.

[iceaxedave]

Sorry so late in responding to your latest post. I've been out climbing in the selkirks over the independence day holiday.

 

Please let me clarify my position...

 

1) I am looking in to the possibilty of using pack animals.

2) I'd rather use llamas than horses because they are, to my knowledge, less damaging to the trails.

3) I am only shocked because of the assumptions some of the respondents to this thread are making about me...(e.g. that I must be lazy, afraid to get dirty, infirm...) when all I wanted was other climbers experiences regarding this option.

4) I know some people have strong opinions about a variety of topics in the world today, but I don't see how making personal attacks on someone they've never met and know nothing about would clarify any issues they have.

5) As I've previously stated, if I were to use them, it is for the purpose of being able to stay longer on the mountains. My point about Everest and Yaks was to make "the point" that pack animals are not "unethical" and do not seem to detract from the wilderness adventures we all enjoy.

 

I apologize sincerely if I have inadvertently offended anyone.

 

BTW, If I were to use Llamas, I would have the licensed llama driver/handler/owner make a gear drop.

The experiences of those climbers who have hiked with llamas seem to indicate that it would be best to leave them to the professionals.

 

Again, to those of you who responded with your experiences, (i.e. Off White, Graupel, Clintoris, Dberdinka, Selkirk, Macson, Dirtyleaf...) thank you.

 

To those who have responded with jokes and humor,

(Slothrop: I think if you bulk up enough, you'll be your own pack animal. I recommend supersets of squats to build those horse-like thighs.) thank you, keep it up!

 

To the rest of you, (who made the unfounded personal attacks)

Edited July 7, 2005 by iceaxedave

[Dechristo]

If we were having this discussion face-to-face, you would be privy to facial expression and vocal inflection. I wouldn't need to express verbally my objections to the cavalier use of pack animals as I imagine you'd discern by your perception of subtlety...

...you being gay and all...

 

I apologize sincerely if I have offended anyone.

Hear me now and believe me later, is there any validity in taking offense other than to fuel vanity?

[graupel]

At least in Washington, it appears that the commercial outfitters go to pretty safe and sane locations. That means most of you hardman climbers are unlikely to ever see them.

 

After talking with an outfitter in Bolivia that had access to both mules and llamas, I don't think you want to try to lead llamas yourself. It sounded like even the outfitter wasn't too keen on using them, but he wasn't taking into account any sort of environmental issues. Llamas, at least in Bolivia, liked to wander off so required more handlers to keep a pack train on track. They carry less than horses or mules too, but I think there are aesthetic reasons that would make them more interesting to travel with than horses or mules.

 

There are a number of places where pack animals are still used in the western US. Some reasons include travel with small children, photographers carrying large format gear, and yes, folks setting up basecamps. They even still deliver the US mail and supplies in Havasupai village in the Grand Canyon to this day.

[cluck]

The vast majority (like all) of climbers choose to climb Olympus without pack animals so it shouldn't be so suprising that most folks around here think it's a silly idea.

 

That being said, you're free to do however you want. But we reserve the right to poke a little fun at you anyway. Try not to take it personally

[Buckaroo]

Hire a teenager. It's done all the time in Yos camp 4, haul bags going in to half dome, it's about 10 miles.

 

Lot cheaper than animals and hopefully less destructive of the environment.

 

Look at getting lighter gear. I've got mine down to 45 pounds with 7 days food and fuel. If you're suffering just go a little slower.