mattp Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 OK, master. I understand that if a shoe fits slopily, it isn't going to perform very well. Please tell me more. Quote
iain Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 The new Mythos seems considerably stiffer than the old Mythos does. I think they are more comfortable than the Miuras, but the Miuras are really nice for Smith-style face stuff. Both do very well in cracks, but for a do-it-all type of thing I say the Mythos is nice. Especially for longer routes. I took a pair of new Miuras up the N. Ridge of Stuart if you can believe that. It was all I had. Agony.  There is that magical week where your Mythos fit really comfortably but are not too loose, after several days of pure agony, followed by years of looseness.  isn't this exactly what i said???  And I am agreeing with you. I apologize if you are offended by that.  Just adding that the new one seems different than the old one. Quote
RuMR Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 not offended at all...but you never know with my "attitude"... Â haven't checked the new ones out...saw some brown version of the mythos but don't know what it is or is about... Quote
RuMR Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 what are you crying about? you got a tude as well??? man, everyone around here is on full-bore-sensitive mode today... Quote
mattp Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 I honestly respect your opinion, RuMR, and I believe you know a hell of a lot more about rock climbing shoes than I do -- that is why I am participating in this exchange -- but you asserted that Cash suffered operator error if he could tell one rubber from another, you argued with me over a point that I didn't even make, you preface your explanation of how the fit is vital for performance with "let me make this simple" ... Â I'm actually interested in your perception of what is proper fit, though. I've asked a couple of times already: is it in your opinion necessary for me to have shoes that hurt to get reasonable edging capability out of them -- assuming I want a shoe that is soft enough to smear well too? Quote
thelawgoddess Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 I've asked a couple of times already: is it in your opinion necessary for me to have shoes that hurt to get reasonable edging capability out of them -- assuming I want a shoe that is soft enough to smear well too? i know you weren't asking me, but i think rumr has about 3 pairs of shoes for every different climbing he might encounter. imho, with the correct fit mythos can do just about anything pretty damned well - up to a point ... but after some use, they certainly can't edge like a pair of anasazi velcros will. but they will almost certainly be more comfortable. as for smearing ... well, that kind of climbing just freaks me out! Quote
RuMR Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 (edited) no, i do not believe that the shoes need to be painfully tight...the key is that your foot must not move inside the shoe when its edging or smearing, obviously if bone crushing tight, its not gonna move...but there is a size that is snug, but not crushing, where the foot is locked within the shoe, but still comfortable. Ideally, one would want uniform pressure around the foot without high pressure points...Hence comments, like "i have a sportiva foot" or "five tens are too narrow"... Â i believe, and this is my opinion and hardly "fact", that when people blame the rubber for losing an edge, or that the shoe is rolling/folding off of an edge (similar to the way you describe your fivetens) its not the shoe giving way or the rubber slipping, but the foot moving inside the shoe. Â with regards to stiff vs. soft shoes, the mechanism that the shoe uses to stay attached to the hold is different (soft shoes "conform" around the hold, allowing for some hooking action, and stiff shoes "catch" on the hold in a mechanical lock) but the foot within the shoe is performing the same...strong toes and foot muscles can mitigate foot movement within the shoe somewhat. Â climbing cracks, you are not as worried about foot movement within the shoe as the entire unit is being jammed and/or cammed in the crack so the shoes can fit more loosely... Â these are my thoughts based on my climbing in the areas that i frequent and my abilities, limited as they are. take them for what they are worth...about $0.02 Edited June 23, 2005 by RuMR Quote
RuMR Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 Madrock is stickier than 5.10!!! Â irrelevant...anything i can climb in 5.10 i can climb in madrock or vice versa... Â young grasshopper there is no argument... Quote
RuMR Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 I've asked a couple of times already: is it in your opinion necessary for me to have shoes that hurt to get reasonable edging capability out of them -- assuming I want a shoe that is soft enough to smear well too? i know you weren't asking me, but i think rumr has about 3 pairs of shoes for every different climbing he might encounter. imho, with the correct fit mythos can do just about anything pretty damned well - up to a point ... but after some use, they certainly can't edge like a pair of anasazi velcros will. but they will almost certainly be more comfortable. as for smearing ... well, that kind of climbing just freaks me out! Â hey! i fessed up to being a shoe slut...your anaz are too tight...that's all... Quote
RuMR Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 no, i do not believe that the shoes need to be painfully tight...the key is that your foot must not move inside the shoe when its edging or smearing, obviously if bone crushing tight, its not gonna move...but there is a size that is snug, but not crushing, where the foot is locked within the shoe, but still comfortable. Ideally, one would want uniform pressure around the foot without high pressure points...Hence comments, like "i have a sportiva foot" or "five tens are too narrow"... i believe, and this is my opinion and hardly "fact", that when people blame the rubber for losing an edge, or that the shoe is rolling/folding off of an edge (similar to the way you describe your fivetens) its not the shoe giving way or the rubber slipping, but the foot moving inside the shoe.  with regards to stiff vs. soft shoes, the mechanism that the shoe uses to stay attached to the hold is different (soft shoes "conform" around the hold, allowing for some hooking action, and stiff shoes "catch" on the hold in a mechanical lock) but the foot within the shoe is performing the same...strong toes and foot muscles can mitigate foot movement within the shoe somewhat.  climbing cracks, you are not as worried about foot movement within the shoe as the entire unit is being jammed and/or cammed in the crack so the shoes can fit more loosely...  these are my thoughts based on my climbing in the areas that i frequent and my abilities, limited as they are. take them for what they are worth...about $0.02  I think what most people are attributing to as improved rubber is more of an improved last. this has been the most significant changes since sticky rubber first came out...you can get nowadays, a much more glovelike fit with an anatomical last and not having to resort to the old lazer (remember those?) approach of buying them 3 sizes too small and then stretching them to fit your foot. Quote
thelawgoddess Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 I've asked a couple of times already: is it in your opinion necessary for me to have shoes that hurt to get reasonable edging capability out of them -- assuming I want a shoe that is soft enough to smear well too? i know you weren't asking me, but i think rumr has about 3 pairs of shoes for every different climbing he might encounter. imho, with the correct fit mythos can do just about anything pretty damned well - up to a point ... but after some use, they certainly can't edge like a pair of anasazi velcros will. but they will almost certainly be more comfortable. as for smearing ... well, that kind of climbing just freaks me out! Â hey! i fessed up to being a shoe slut...your anaz are too tight...that's all... yeah, but the next size up is too big. i must not have an "anasazi" foot. Quote
mattp Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 OK then, back to the original question: Galileo v. Anasazi. The Galileo's are stiffer, and you said "stick with the A's- the G's are too stiff." I'm not sure how different the last is on these two shoes, but I think it is not all that different. Wouldn't I find that the Gallileo's would offer support helping edge a little better, while they'e probably be less suited to friction climbing? Are you suggesting that the G's being "too stiff" limits the range of their performance or do you think that stiffness is no help for edging? Quote
RuMR Posted June 24, 2005 Posted June 24, 2005 too stiff means too insensitive...i personally wanna know what's going on with the shoe, especially if i'm sketching out. some people would rather not know, they just put their foot delicately on the hold and forget about it. Â stiff vs. soft...personal choice...i've seen some sick friction climbing in stiff shoes and i've seen some sick edging in soft shoes... Â they fit the same to me on my foot...edge the same too, i just have no idea when the galelio's are going to pop off a hold...i have both and reach for the anazazis first. Â they fit the same in the front...heel fit is neither better nor worse between the shoes, just different. Quote
RuMR Posted June 24, 2005 Posted June 24, 2005 I've asked a couple of times already: is it in your opinion necessary for me to have shoes that hurt to get reasonable edging capability out of them -- assuming I want a shoe that is soft enough to smear well too? i know you weren't asking me, but i think rumr has about 3 pairs of shoes for every different climbing he might encounter. imho, with the correct fit mythos can do just about anything pretty damned well - up to a point ... but after some use, they certainly can't edge like a pair of anasazi velcros will. but they will almost certainly be more comfortable. as for smearing ... well, that kind of climbing just freaks me out! Â hey! i fessed up to being a shoe slut...your anaz are too tight...that's all... yeah, but the next size up is too big. i must not have an "anasazi" foot. Â just get prego...you'll go up a size in your feet Quote
mattp Posted June 24, 2005 Posted June 24, 2005 About this heel fit. I've found some shoes have too much of a heel cup for me, so they cut into the top of my heel in a painful way. Do they do this because people pop out of the heels sometimes? And do you really need a particular fit in the heel -- isn't comfort there the only reel consideration? Â --- Â And, by the way, just wear nothing but sandals for a several months, or simply get older -- both have increased my foot size substantially, though the sandal experiment yielded only temporary results. Quote
TrogdortheBurninator Posted June 24, 2005 Posted June 24, 2005 Back to the thread drift.... Â I haven't climbed on 5.10s ever cause anasazis always hurt my foot. Recently I have been using Mad Rock Flash for sport/gym and Mythos for Alpine/Trad. I always complained how shitty the rubber on my Mythos felt compared to my Madrocks. Then one day I decided to actually tighten my Mythos shoes, and low and behold thye actually climbed pretty damn well on edgy or smeary terrain. I typically crack climbed in my Mythos, where like Rumr said they felt great, however occasionally broke them out for slab climbs, and felt like I was struggling for confidence. It never occured to me it might be a fit thing because they climbed so good in cracks. Anyhow, I still prefer the Madrock rubber to LaSport I think, however I have much less basis for my argument than I once did. Quote
thelawgoddess Posted June 24, 2005 Posted June 24, 2005 I've found some shoes have too much of a heel cup for me, so they cut into the top of my heel in a painful way. Do they do this because people pop out of the heels sometimes? no; they just don't fit you right. everybody's feet are different, heels/ankles/achilles/etc. included. really pays to try on a million pair until you find the ones that fit you best ... Quote
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