Jim Posted May 31, 2005 Posted May 31, 2005 Our simpleton president is at it again: President Bush called a human rights report "absurd" for criticizing the United States' detention of terrorist suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and said Tuesday the allegations were made by "people who hate America." "It's absurd. It's an absurd allegation. The United States is a country that promotes freedom around the world," Bush said of the Amnesty International report that compared Guantanamo to a Soviet-era gulag. I heard his speech at Arlington yesterday and he actually said "..freedom is on the march", again. What a dolt. Quote
foraker Posted May 31, 2005 Posted May 31, 2005 "people who hate America" = "people who expect us to live up to our fine sounding words and impressive rhetoric" Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 "people who hate America" = "people who expect us to live up to our fine sounding words and impressive rhetoric" Nicely put. Time to thin the hypocrite herd! Quote
Luna Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 I'm travelling this summer out of the country and will wear a pin saying "I hate him too - I didn't vote for the idiot." Quote
Fairweather Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 Jim...Dr Flash...Foraker...Luna... All you need here is a little j_b and you guys can break out the love oil! Quote
Winter Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 yo guys i hate bush and i hate our government right now, but hating america is going a bit far. c'mon we've got powerball for piss sake! don't let bush get you down ... the pendulum will swing back. Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 Typical conservative closet-case. Decry the liberal ethos with fiery contrarian slanderism from one corner of your mouth, slur lustful leftist four-way fantasies (double alliteration, double word score!) out the other. Rest assured, Fairweather, Dr. Flash Amazing can read you like a book. (Or would that be Penthouse Forum? Nah, too highbrow.) Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 It's a good point you make, Winter. The beauty of America is that it allows you to hate damn near everything about it--or at least everyone in charge of running it--without going to jail (usually). Who wouldn't love such a place and want to make it better? Of course, one has to wonder: at what point does the slimy, hypocritical, money-lubricated political system end, and the fabric of the nation begin? Quote
Fairweather Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 Fairweather likely prefers a good read over a picture book. Fairweather has never been called high-brow. Dr Flash paints with the broad brush he stole from his imaginary right-wing friend. Fairweather admits his sentence in the previous post was a bit choppy and rife with irregular consanants and syllables. But it was clearly not run-on. Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 Ehh...sorry, sport, but DFA doesn't have any imaginary friends. But, if he did, you can bet your ass they wouldn't be a Bush-voting, Rush-listening, NRA-supporting, Ann Coulter-fantasizing, starboard-winging whackos. Yeesh! Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 Fairweather likely prefers a good read over a picture book. Fairweather has never been called high-brow. Dr Flash paints with the broad brush he stole from his imaginary right-wing friend. Fairweather admits his sentence in the previous post was a bit choppy and rife with irregular consanants and syllables. But it was clearly not run-on. Now you've picked up a certified Doctorial mannerism...DFA must not be the only one drinking and posting this evening. Quote
JayB Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 Hey: I've got something I hate about America. I hate the way the word liberal is used in America. Locke, Macaulay, Lord Acton, Gladstone, Von Hayek, and Von Mises must certainly be convulsing in their graves every the intellectual tradition that they dedicated their lives to constructing is missapplied to the tepid, soccer-mom socialism of today. Read Me - True Liberalism Defined Quote
Fairweather Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 (edited) Unlike our constitution, Liberal is a living, breathing, ever-changing doctrine. It's meaning is broader than conservative. I do believe you've posted on the nature of the word liberal, and its applications both modern and traditional, on previous occassions. I prefer to apply the pejorative; 'fucking liberal', 'dumb-assed liberal', or my favorite; 'cock-sucking liberal'. Edited June 1, 2005 by Fairweather Quote
JayB Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 Unlike our constitution, Liberal is a living, breathing, ever-changing doctrine. It's meaning is broader than conservative. I do believe you've posted on the nature of the word liberal, and its applications both modern and traditional, on previous occassions. True enough - it's just that life would be a hell of a lot easier if I could just call myself a liberal like my ideological counterparts in Europe. Speaking of Liberals in Europe - my prediction is that by 2007 both Schoeder and Chirac will have been replaced by two Liberal politicians - Angela Merkl and Nikolas Sarcozy. Woohoo - go Liberals! Quote
Couloir Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 I wonder what's nicer, Getmo or [insert any prisoner of war camp in Vietnam, Germany, Korea, et.al. that housed Americans for years on end]? Quote
foraker Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 what would be nicer is not having prison camps that invite comparisons to those in vietnam, german, korea, etc..... Quote
foraker Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 "Happy for us that when we find our constitutions defective and insufficient to secure the happiness of our people, we can assemble with all the coolness of philosophers and set it to rights, while every other nation on earth must have recourse to arms to amend or to restore their constitutions." --Thomas Jefferson to C. W. F. Dumas, 1787. ME 6:295, Papers 12:113 "Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence and deem them like the ark of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment. I knew that age well; I belonged to it and labored with it. It deserved well of its country. It was very like the present but without the experience of the present; and forty years of experience in government is worth a century of book-reading; and this they would say themselves were they to rise from the dead." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, 1816. ME 15:40 "The idea that institutions established for the use of the nation cannot be touched nor modified even to make them answer their end because of rights gratuitously supposed in those employed to manage them in trust for the public, may perhaps be a salutary provision against the abuses of a monarch but is most absurd against the nation itself. Yet our lawyers and priests generally inculcate this doctrine and suppose that preceding generations held the earth more freely than we do, had a right to impose laws on us unalterable by ourselves, and that we in like manner can make laws and impose burdens on future generations which they will have no right to alter; in fine, that the earth belongs to the dead and not the living." --Thomas Jefferson to William Plumer, 1816. ME 15:46 Thomas Jefferson, just another fucking liberal...... Quote
dberdinka Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 I HATE AMERICA.... for all the god damn suit-wearing, tubby, half-balding, comb-over fucks commuting half way across the county in their pristine and shiny F350s, Ram 2500s and the occasional Hummer to their friggin office job. Something about those folks really grates me. Why do you hate America......? Quote
Ireneo_Funes Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 what would be nicer is not having prison camps that invite comparisons to those in vietnam, german, korea, etc..... Could not have said it better myself. Quote
Dave_Schuldt Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 what would be nicer is not having prison camps that invite comparisons to those in vietnam, german, korea, etc..... Could not have said it better myself. Is our little gulag saposed to make terrorist think twice before attacking us? No way. Our gulag is a terrorist dream comae true. Look at all the propaganda they can come up with based on it. The Busies have no idea of the importance of PR/ propaganda and how it can be used against us. Set all the prisoners free, shure there are angy terrorist among them, but their continued detention will just create more. Is there a long term plan for our little gulag? Quote
Couloir Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 What would be nicer still is not having terrorists. Now that we do, how do we deal with them? Ignore 9/11? Call in all our troops from around the world and just defend our own borders? Many things were done wrong post-9/11, even pre-9/11. But seriously, what should be done now? The notion of letting them all go seems as silly as opening up our own state prisons and letting them all go free. Afterall, they'd be happy and wouldn't commit anymore crimes, right? Regardless of what religion you espouse or which god you worship, killing people because you hate them is flat wrong. So, how should the US have responded to 9/11? Just chaulked it up to bad policy and say, "shucks, I guess we just don't understand them," and move on? From what I understand there have been ~75,000 detainees since the attack. Many have been released. Most have been treated fairly under the circumstances. There have been reports of abuse, about 300. That's way less than 1/4 percent. Those cases get investigated and where there was wrongdoing, those involved got and are getting punished. There are 3 million people in the armed services. Bad things are going to happen. Is it Bush's fault? Is it a Governor's fault when there is abuse in state prisons?? I have some serious issues with this administration, but instead of hating HIM, and in the case of this thread, hating America, if you have some REAL solutions to dealing with these hugely complex issues, lay them out. If not, Spray away! Quote
catbirdseat Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 We should go after the terrorists only and not entire countries. That way we don't make more terrorists than we are able to kill. Quote
Jim Posted June 1, 2005 Author Posted June 1, 2005 If you take the time to read the Amnesty International report you'll see that the main point is that the US has established what is essentially a penal colony where there is no rule of law, no judical oversight, and no adherence to US or international law. Which is why the prison was established on such a vague US land holding. The denuciations coming from Rumsfeld and Bush are a good feint. They rail against the democracy-haters without touching on the core issues. Quote
foraker Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 how about this: acting in accordance with the laws and principles we so loudly proclaim to be the hallmarks of a just and humane democracy. seems pretty easy to me. why does the right seem so rabid about demanding personal accountability when it comes to the actions of individuals yet they are perennially blind to the actions of the current administration? why are we willing to forgive the trespasses of presidents but not of the common man? yes, and before you say it, i've taken democratic presidents to task as well. but you know what, they're not wielding power right now.....i've always found it a real weak retort when someone says 'well, but clinton yadda yadda yadda'. yea, he did, and it probably wasn't right either. Quote
Couloir Posted June 1, 2005 Posted June 1, 2005 Where is this wholesale torture going on!?! If it were, don't you think the media, who seems to have the same disdain for the President as the left, would be all over it?? There are hundreds of people that if anything on a grand scale were going on, would leak it to the media in a second. Have there been incidents of mistreatment? Absolutely! They have come to light and they're being dealt with. I would argue, you can get more out of the interrogation of a suspect through other means than torture. Frankly, it is because this country DOES believe so much in "the hallmarks of a just and humane democracy" that rampant inhumane treatment doesn't happen. Keep in mind, these people that are in charge of these detainees are members of our volunteer military. They're us. They follow orders, but there are legal mechanisms in place to ensure they don't do anything that violates basic human rights. When individual rights are violated (abu ghraib), they get dealt with. Thanks for the tip. I read the AI report. In sharp contrast to all the real torture and violation of human rights that is going on around the world, I would say the few instances of mistreatment to detainees (people that were captured fighting and trying to kill us on the battlefield...not random innocent civilians) shades in comparison. And as far as Clinton is concerned, I thought he was a decent President as far as his policies and decisions are concerned. I just think his treatment of the Presidency itself was in poor taste. I mean fucking your intern in the Oval Office while your wife is in the other room...yeah we all "common men" do that ALL the time. Hell, it's in vogue these days! But he was the President. I don't think any of us would have done that, again, out of respect for the office. Quote
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