"climbing" is sooo stupid

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Pizzle tizzle.

 

[Drederek]

Flash or onsite the same event has occurred; you climbed a route without resting or falling. The only difference is how you describe it and how big your chest puffs up.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Flash or onsite the same event has occurred; you climbed a route without resting or falling. The only difference is how you describe it and how big your chest puffs up.

 

That's pretty funny. You obviously lack even the faintest clue as to what you are talking about, but keep talking if it makes you feel like you know something.

[E-rock]

The difference between a flash and an onsite is purely semantical. Or perhaps egotistical.

 

No, the difference between a flash and an onsight is pretty widely understood and well defined. You either got the beta from someone else by talking to them or watching them climb the route, or you didn't. Period.

 

Footnote.

 

Your definition may help YOU decide if you flashed or onsighted iff you have no mental defects. How does it help ME pigeonhole your style? Can I look under the lid? I am a trained neurophysiologist.

 

My understanding is that your understanding of wide understanding is flawed.

Actually, this is an endnote.

 

But what do I know? I'm an untrained neurophysiologist without a windshirt.

 

Actually it could be either. Footnotes are at the end of a page. Endnotes are at the end of a document. Both apply here.

[Dru]

except that it isnt the foot or the end anymore

 

endfoot

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

 

Page middle-or-so!

[Drederek]

Flash or onsite the same event has occurred; you climbed a route without resting or falling. The only difference is how you describe it and how big your chest puffs up.

 

That's pretty funny. You obviously lack even the faintest clue as to what you are talking about, but keep talking if it makes you feel like you know something.

No I'm just here to learn. Is a tick mark beta? Does someone of similar size, ability and style saying the crux was not too bad beta? What about a name like "Vomit Launch"? What about bouldering up and clipping the first bolt? What about hearing 2nd or 3rd hand that some one 3" shorter came up short on the crux? What about the ground eroding out from under a start, OK to stack rocks to the original start? What if you saw a picture of the route in a calendar or mag with someone on it? Which of these scenarios invalidate an onsite? Do any of them lessen your achievement? Please enlighten me as I truly do not know very much.

[Cairns]

Pizzle tizzle.

 

Incoherence is a good refuge for you.

 

I am only making the case that there are so many gradations of beta between "onsight" and "flash" that to worry over whether an ascent is one or the other is stupid. Of course hair cells of the vestibular sensory epithelium can be broadly divided into type I or type II but those are really just ends of a spectrum.

[Dr_Crash]

I do all my climbing on site.

 

drC

[ScottP]

Pizzle tizzle.

 

Incoherence is a good refuge for you.

[EWolfe]

That's why you are Dr. Flash, and not Dr. On-sight.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Pizzle tizzle.

 

Incoherence is a good refuge for you.

 

I am only making the case that there are so many gradations of beta between "onsight" and "flash" that to worry over whether an ascent is one or the other is stupid. Of course hair cells of the vestibular sensory epithelium can be broadly divided into type I or type II but those are really just ends of a spectrum.

 

And DFA is only making the case that the distinction between flash and onsight is pretty obvious and clear-cut. You sound like the typical trad wank who has a few 5.8s under his belt and thinks he understands shit about climbing routes without falling, and what stepping up to a piece of stone you've never climbed before and sending it entails. When you actually do this, it becomes quite obvious what constitutes beta and what does not.

 

As for your assertions of incoherence, ickstay itay upay ouryay assay.

 

[Cairns]

You sound like the typical trad wank who has a few 5.8s under his belt and thinks he understands shit about climbing routes without falling, and what stepping up to a piece of stone you've never climbed before and sending it entails. When you actually do this, it becomes quite obvious what constitutes beta and what does not.

 

 

As for inchoherence, what are you trying to say, above?

 

If you were standing around and overheard a route being discussed and some of the details may have taken residence in some corner of your head, but you have no conscious memory of it, would that be beta? Sure, the distinction between onsight and flash could be obvious to a dictionary, just not useful in practice.

 

If y'tell me that y'love me you'll be talkin' way above me

That's no way to answer someone standing on your toe

If y'love me show you know me

You've got to talk my language

It's the only one I know

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

As for inchoherence, what are you trying to say, above?[\quote]

 

"Page Top" in Snoop Dogg speak; don't be dense.

 

[qoute]

If you were standing around and overheard a route being discussed and some of the details may have taken residence in some corner of your head, but you have no conscious memory of it, would that be beta? Sure, the distinction between onsight and flash could be obvious to a dictionary, just not useful in practice.

 

Again, when you do, you'll know, and until you do, stop pretending to know or assuming that others don't.

[Cairns]

Again, when you do, you'll know, and until you do, stop pretending to know or assuming that others don't.

 

 

To summarize

 

Cairns:

The difference between onsight and flash can be so small that it doesn't really say anything to call an ascent one or the other without further qualification.

 

 

DFA:

You'll know it when you see it.

You're a wanker.

Pig Latin

Pizzle Tizzle

 

 

Bob:

Ignorace is horrible.

[archenemy]

I seriously doubt very many people onsight a route knowing absolutely nothing about it. The name and grade and location and type and direction are all info most people leave the ground with. So I guess to truly "onsight" a climb you would have to be blindfolded, led to the airport, flown to an unknown destination (still blindfolded), hermetically sealed in plastic so you couldn't pick up clues to your whereabouts, then led to the climb (still blind folded). Then feel your way up to the base of the route and climb it (still blindfolded). Of course it would be a sightless "onsite" but what else would you call it?

 

A Minnesota challenge.

[Dechristo]

I and another climber established over thirty routes on a crag that had never seen development. All climbs were done from the ground up, trad, without falls, and without inspection or gardening previous to the FAs.

 

Were these climbs "on-sites"?

[glassgowkiss]

Cairns, what's your hardes redpoint. then we can talk. other wise fuck off into wank heaven

[Cairns]

Cairns, what's your hardes redpoint. then we can talk. other wise fuck off into wank heaven

 

Well, Bob, I would be happy to make this about myself. I have a healthy well-stroked ego. Start another thread for What-the-fuck-does-Cairns-know?

 

However, you are the one who started this thread, so if you don't want to talk, no problem. You didn't have a case anyway.

 

I'm surprised that the usually sharp DFA doesn't seem aware that I'm actually on his side, as could be deduced from my confession to having started climbing before chalk saw much use (1967). I have a better understanding than most about the difference between onsight and flash, but all I'll say here is that it's more fun if you don't know what's coming.

 

So why can't you or DFA explain what is so important about onsight versus flash?

 

My hardest redpoint isn't that easy to pick out from all the years, areas, and eras. Perhaps the purist form of onsight is in competition climbing where the route was created maybe the day before. When they had a lead comp at the local gym in 1991, Geoff Weigand listed his hardest redpoint at 14a and Greg Child said his was K2. In the qualifying round I placed between and within a couple points of the two of them. The gym hadn't scheduled a final for us over-40s, though.

 

And how could DFA fall into error on both sides of this issue? He says that the difference between onsight and flash is obvious and well understood, then he fuzzes on whether chalked holds are beta.

[selkirk]

I and another climber established over thirty routes on a crag that had never seen development. All climbs were done from the ground up, trad, without falls, and without inspection or gardening previous to the FAs.

 

Were these climbs "on-sites"?

 

Only the first one, after all the other lines count as having been scouted so they're only a flash.

[Dechristo]

I and another climber established over thirty routes on a crag that had never seen development. All climbs were done from the ground up, trad, without falls, and without inspection or gardening previous to the FAs.

 

Were these climbs "on-sites"?

 

Only the first one, after all the other lines count as having been scouted so they're only a flash.

Fuck. I'm so bummed...

 

...gunna go put a shotgun in my mouth.

[Dru]

I and another climber established over thirty routes on a crag that had never seen development. All climbs were done from the ground up, trad, without falls, and without inspection or gardening previous to the FAs.

 

Were these climbs "on-sites"?

 

Only the first one, after all the other lines count as having been scouted so they're only a flash.

 

when i see "without gardening" i know its not in the pnw

[Dechristo]

when i see "without gardening" i know its not in the pnw

 

There was a shitload of gardening during the ascent...needed a Garden Weasel or a Troy-Built...freakin' wore a cleaning tool to a nubbin.

 

No gardening on rappell previous to the FAs.

 

But, you're right... it wasn't in the PNW.

[selkirk]

I and another climber established over thirty routes on a crag that had never seen development. All climbs were done from the ground up, trad, without falls, and without inspection or gardening previous to the FAs.

 

Were these climbs "on-sites"?

 

Only the first one, after all the other lines count as having been scouted so they're only a flash.

 

says the guy who hasn't established jack shit

 

I think it's only a flash if the beta you had was actualy useful/important. If it amounts to "it looks like it takes pro well and it'll go" seems to me it should still be an onsight.

[Dechristo]

Too late... my brains have emulated Skippy the cat in Boondock Saints.