seattle commie city

[j_b]

Talk to the Tatars about what Stalin did to them and compare.

 

look who, in fact, is the moral relativist and the apologist ...

 

Not quite. I said to ask them.

 

.... and "compare", as if killing and pillaging for grabbing land was better than killing and pillaging for whatever other reason. or perhaps you'd rather call the former 'collateral damage'.

 

my posts are pretty clear about what i think of mass murders and oppression in any and all contexts, be it under the cover of ideology or the pretense of manifest destiny or whatnot. it boils down to the same thing: power and money.

[j_b]

I love how liberals want to posture as defenders of the sufferings of minorities they know nothing about. Ask any Crimean Tatar about what Stalin did to them, and then what the Czars did.

 

just so there is no confusion about who is posturing around here:

 

"This is exactly what happened in the Caucasus, where Imperial Russia resorted to the strategy of modern, nationalistically motivated ethnic cleansing and genocide in the 18th and 19th century, and from where the methods used by the Russian Empire against Crimean Tatars, Circassians and Chechens was soon exported to other empires, to target Armenians in the south, and Jews in the west (where anti-Semitism had long roots already). Stalin's attempt to wipe out whole nations from the Caucasus in 1944 only served to solidify the insistence of national independence among the Caucasus nations."

http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~aphamala/pe/2004/rusquagm.htm

 

and

 

"Introduced as the most prominent Russian political figure advocating a change in Russian policy toward Chechnya, Ivan Rybkin began his presentation by noting that he lived for over thirty years in Northern Caucasus. He reflected on his initial encounter as an adolescent with consequences of Stalin's massive deportations that affected many ethnic groups. Chechen people were among these nationalities that became uprooted, exiled, and scattered across territories of northern Kazakhstan and Siberia by Moscow in 1944. With the disintegration of the Soviet Union, a movement among Chechens arose to assert their autonomy and national selfhood. However, the Chechen struggle for self-determination takes its roots much earlier than the 1990s. According to Rybkin, in the 19th century three million Chechens and other mountain people died fighting for their independence from Russia during the fifty-seven years of the First Caucasian War. The military regime imposed by Imperial Russia on the Chechens lasted until 1917. Later, in the period between 1922 and 1944, continued Chechen resistance to the Soviet authorities forced Moscow to periodically send security forces into the region."

http://www.carnegieendowment.org/events/index.cfm?fa=eventDetail&id=525

[KaskadskyjKozak]

just so there is no confusion about who is posturing around here:

 

As has been stated several times already, the discussion is about how a statue of Lenin, a vicious murderous tyrant, has been placed in full view for victims of his revolution (direct or indirect) to see. Nobody is erecting statues of the Czars for the Chechens, Tatars, or anybody else to see.

 

You are simply obfuscating the evils of communism with your discussion of past historical regimes. It has no relevance to the discussion. You refuse to categorically condemn communism, because of your own left-of-center ideological leanings, and seek ways to mitigate their crimes through rhetorical games.

 

To play your game, one could simply talk about the slaughter of tens of thousands of Slavic peoples across Russia at the hands of the Genghis Khan and his Golden Horde - and then talk about where the Tatars came from originally...

Edited May 5, 2005 by KaskadskyjKozak

[rbw1966]

As has been stated several times already, the discussion is about how a statue of Lenin, a vicious murderout tyrant, has been placed in full view for victims of his revolution (direct or indirect) to see.

 

I thought this statue was in Fremont. Did I miss the revolution there? Damn.

[Peter_Puget]

This quote by the head of the Coomie party in Britain sums up western communism perfectly:

 

Said to Poet Stephen Spender when he went to the Spanish Civil War: "...go and get killed; we need a Byron in the movement."

 

Edited May 5, 2005 by Peter_Puget

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I thought this statue was in Fremont. Did I miss the revolution there? Damn.

 

There are plenty of immigrants living here who suffered under communism, like glassgowkiss. And there are plenty of war veterans (and their families) who suffered fighting communism during the cold war.

[foraker]

oddly enough, none of my numerous russian acquaintances in town seem to give a shit about the statue.

[rbw1966]

When I mentioned it to my wife she thought it was funny that a statue of Lenin was in Seattle, obviously not representing what it did in the former USSR. She grew up under communism and took part in the velvet revolution. But thank god she has KK to voice her moral outrage.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

When I mentioned it to my wife she thought it was funny that a statue of Lenin was in Seattle, obviously not representing what it did in the former USSR. She grew up under communism and took part in the velvet revolution. But thank god she has KK to voice her moral outrage.

 

You don't know me, where I come from, or where my family comes from, so off. As for moral outrage - all Americans have a case for it considering the cost this country paid fighting communism in the cold war. Lenin and Stalin were murderous scum on par with Adolf Hitler - and nobody would argue the outrage of erecting a statue to him in a public place.

[rbw1966]

You don't know me, where I come from, or where my family comes from, so off.

 

Follow your own advice.

 

As for moral outrage - all Americans have a case for it considering the cost this country paid fighting communism in the cold war.

 

Agreed.

 

Lenin and Stalin were murderous scum on par with Adolf Hitler

 

Agreed.

 

nobody would argue the outrage of erecting a statue to him in a public place.

 

Disagreed. This thread itself is evidence that people would argue about it.

 

[j_b]

man, i give up. it's obvious there is no amount of logic or evidence that will make you modulate your tune anyway. i certainly don't care about ideologies: not theirs and not yours either. but i am certain you'll keep on with the binary rhetoric since this is how you articulate your simpleton vision of the world. sigh ...

[KaskadskyjKozak]

man, i give up. it's obvious there is no amount of logic or evidence that will make you modulate your tune anyway. i certainly don't care about ideologies: not theirs and not yours either. but i am certain you'll keep on with the binary rhetoric since this is how you articulate your simpleton vision of the world. sigh ...

 

Yeah, you liberals are so "nuanced" and sophisticated that you can make excuses for pure evil.

[archenemy]

I think we should install an ATM machine in the Lenin statue so dollar bills shoot out his ass.

[Cobra_Commander]

post of the day

[olyclimber]

Ya. That's pretty good. Here's an award.

[foraker]

or maybe a snow cone maker! free cherry commie snow cones for all!

 

at the end of the day, if you aren't doing something to change the situation then all this bluster is pseudo-alpha male chest beating back by zero action. single man letter writing campaigns are not likely to get the fremontians (fremontagnards?) to get them to remove it. I'm sure they've seen dozens of letters in the past from random individuals who really have their panties in a bunch over it. want it removed? organize the locals who feel similarly. i realize it might take some effort to break yoiurself away from playing Halo but you might get the satisfaction of living up to your convictions.

[Skeezix]

Post of the day will be the first post of a photo of a cc.commer humping Lenin.

[Dru]

How 'bout a statue of Idi Amin?

[j_b]

man, i give up. it's obvious there is no amount of logic or evidence that will make you modulate your tune anyway. i certainly don't care about ideologies: not theirs and not yours either. but i am certain you'll keep on with the binary rhetoric since this is how you articulate your simpleton vision of the world. sigh ...

 

Yeah, you liberals are so "nuanced" and sophisticated that you can make excuses for pure evil.

 

i understand now: when they do it, it's 'pure evil'. when you do it, it's 'collateral damage'. simple enough ...