Toast Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 I just dusted off my avvy beacon and a sudden chill hit my spine, do I even remember how to use this thing? Well, I found this and thought it was enlightening, Inductive Beacon Searches. Of course, the most important thing to know about avalanches is... how to avoid them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Toast: I just dusted off my avvy beacon and a sudden chill hit my spine, do I even remember how to use this thing? that's why ortovox made the x1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toast Posted November 19, 2002 Author Share Posted November 19, 2002 Brainless does not equate to better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by thelawgoddess: quote:Originally posted by Toast: do I even remember how to use this thing? that's why ortovox made the x1. With my experience, I find that the digital beacons require even more practice than the analog ones in multiple burials. Of course I am an old fart, who doesn't want to throw down for the new tech. Results from competitions seem to suggest that the Tracker and such, are ultimately faster in practiced hands. In a single burial the digital beacons are certainly more intuitive, although I still get thrown off by the lag, and the lack of volume control (something the X1 may address). It doesn't matter what beacon you have. Practice is essential. If I was under the snow I'd rather the person up top had an old Ortovox and lots of practice than a brand new X1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 the x1 has both digital and analog functions with the added benefit that it knows when to function in each mode. (no user-switching involved.) reportedly, this beacon has been tested by hundreds of professionals (and also in multi-burial scenarios) ... and while isn't as beefy as the m2, it has gotten rave reviews. i'd rather be skiing with someone who has this beacon and little more than some common sense than with someone with an old beacon who may or may NOT remember how to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 I agree with tlg. I Think the newer analog/digital beacons are very good technology. I have the mammut one, whatever it's called, and it's like the x1, working in analog and then digital as you get closer. It's also a little smaller than the typical beacons, and I find that nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toast Posted November 20, 2002 Author Share Posted November 20, 2002 I think you mean digital then analogue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by JoshK: I Think the newer analog/digital beacons are very good technology. I have the mammut one, whatever it's called, and it's like the x1, working in analog and then digital as you get closer. I agree that they are a good thing too. I don't think that they replace practice, and I think there is some risk that some people believe they can. I am actually buying a Mammut Barryvox too this week. One thing I like is that I can set it up as an analog beacon until I am confident in my abilitites to use it in digital mode. I find when the beacon takes over and starts switching modes and stuff I get confused. quote: Originally posted by thelawgoddess: i'd rather be skiing with someone who has this beacon and little more than some common sense than with someone with an old beacon who may or may NOT remember how to use it. I did say lots of practice, and meant to imply that they also remembered how to use it. [ 11-19-2002, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: snoboy ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Toast: I think you mean digital then analogue No, I think he said what he meant to say. The Barryvox can operate in analog, then switch to digital after picking up a signal. This serves to increase the effective range in the initial search. Don't quote me on this though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Yeah snoboy, you are definitely right. In fact, I've taken friends in the backcountry and made them rent a tracker and just basically gave them the 5 minute course, explaining that the arrows point to where I'll be buried. I wouldn't do this again; I realize it's just as good as taking no beacon at all. I think you'll be happy with the mammut. I also find the strap system the best I've used. It's super simple and the way the beacon comes out of it's "holster" is nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Yup, analog gives you better range, or so they say, so you start out in that mode to cover the most distance. When you are within "digital mode" you can switch to digital and locate the victim with the digital flux line search, also known as follow the arrows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 quote: It doesn't matter what beacon you have. Practice is essential I agree with this. I also consider the primary purpose of a beacon is to make it easier to find the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toast Posted November 20, 2002 Author Share Posted November 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by thelawgoddess: i'd rather be skiing with someone who has this (digital) beacon and little more than some common sense than with someone with an old beacon who may or may NOT remember how to use it. I'd rather ride with somebody who's artful in avoiding avalanches, and knows how to use their beacon should the need arise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 It's similar to wanting to stick to climbing partners who DONT kick down rocks on you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toast Posted November 20, 2002 Author Share Posted November 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by snoboy: quote:Originally posted by Toast: I think you mean digital then analogue No, I think he said what he meant to say. The Barryvox can operate in analog, then switch to digital after picking up a signal. This serves to increase the effective range in the initial search. Don't quote me on this though. You're right about the Barryvox, but I don't think that's true of the X-1. I could be wrong though On a side note, I've heard the Barryvox is almost too sophisticated (way too many frickin settings,) and confusing to use. I have a plain vanilla F-1. It has good range because it's analogue, and once you've re-familiarized yourself with using it it's pretty dang simple to use. However, hands down, the Tracker is the one I'd want my friends to have. It's extremely intuitive and superior for multiple burials. My impression of the X-1 is it's a not so cheap knock off and two years late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 We've had the discussion before, but I still have to say that I am in general agreement with the person who (last year) promoted the idea that avalanche beacons should not give you any sense of safety in avalanche terrain. The fact is that the number of avalanche vicims who are dug up alive after being completely buried (so they couldn't have been found by simply walking on top of the debris and looking for them) is very small (I think it was reported to be almost zero). I forget who it was, but they quoted some avalanche expert who suggested that the whole emphasis on recovery is misguided and may in fact distract from what we should be focussing on: avoidance. I like skiing in fresh snow -- and I particularly like skiing in the alpine zone where terrain anchors other than rocky areas which I tend to avoid are non-existent. I like climbing too -- though I tend to pursue winter climbing when the avalanche hazard is much lower than it is when I'm skiing. I'm not fooling myself that I am skilled enough to avoid dangerous situations, but I think the point is a good one: go ahead and wear the beacon and learn how to use it, but don't think that you are safer with one because you are probably not. And if you are prone to think "it is OK to ski this slope because I am wearing a beacon" you are in fact probably in MORE danger when you use the thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figger_Eight Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Right on Matt. 70% of deaths caused by avalanches are a result of trauma, not suffocation. They're pretty much just body recovery tools most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coondog Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Avoidance being the key, anyone have recommendatinos on the best avalanche awareness course(s) out there? I've had the very basic 38* & leeward slopes = high danger areas, but I'm looking for something a little more in-depth, preferably with single & multi burial pieps use too. Thx- --cd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toast Posted November 20, 2002 Author Share Posted November 20, 2002 Paul Baugher is leading a Level I avalanche clinic up at Crystal Mountain in January. It's pretty pricey, but I'm sure it's comprehensive. I think Gary Brill runs something similar. Other groups like the Mountaineers run avalanche safety classes. They focus on avoidance but also teach rescue technique. Everett is running one December 3rd (2 lectures and a field trip.) Many stores like Marmott and Cascade Crags will run similar clinics. As a primer, you might check out some of the avvy related articles in Couloir. Also, if you plan to be out this winter, sign up for the daily NW Avalanche Bulletin hosted by CSAC. It broadcasts the NWAC's avalanche updates in a daily email. Reading these updates daily is VERY educational as they indicate when and how slabs and weak layers develop in relation to the weather. Hope that helps... time for a beer [ 11-20-2002, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: Toast ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammut_rep Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Originally posted by Toast: "On a side note, I've heard the Barryvox is almost too sophisticated (way too many frickin settings,) and confusing to use." Toast, I agree that the Barryvox seems to have a lot of settings, but there aren't any more than you would find on a standard cell phone. You can switch from Digital mode to Digital/Analog mode, you can perform a test to see if everyone's beacons are transmitting signals, you can change the ear piece volume, you can adjust the time for the "revert back to send function", and you can switch it to keep the analog tone thoughout the search or have it turn off after the primary search phase. This may sound like a lot, but it really isn't. And it is really easy to switch from one funtion to another. Plus, when the beacon comes out of the box, it is already set to the "default mode" or digital mode. Most people won't need to adjust any of the settings at all. It's pretty much good to go from the start. If anyone is interested in looking at some test results from an independent test in Austria on all of the more popular beacons on the market, e-mail me and I can forward you a copy of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 quote: If anyone is interested in looking at some test results from an independent test in Austria on all of the more popular beacons on the market, e-mail me and I can forward you a copy of it. I would be very interested in seeing this. However I tried to email you and your address is blocked from the board. I'll PM you my e-mail. Maybe you could post a link to it, if it is on the web somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toast Posted November 20, 2002 Author Share Posted November 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by mammut_rep: I agree that the Barryvox seems to have a lot of settings, but there aren't any more than you would find on a standard cell phone. How much you want to bet your average Joe doesn't fumble a few times trying to dig up their third most recent missed call and save it. Now add the confusion of an emergency Wouldn't you really rather have the most basic device possible? 'Course, that's just me. But hey, you could always drop by one of the Pub Clubs and to show off your wares... and maybe run a refresher clinic for us. There's one going on tonight at Dexter & Hayse (sp?) and usually one every Tuesday. [ 11-19-2002, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: Toast ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 I recommend the Tracker if you are in the market. People complain about the advertised range. I think range is overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Toast: quote:Originally posted by mammut_rep: I agree that the Barryvox seems to have a lot of settings, but there aren't any more than you would find on a standard cell phone. How much you want to bet your average Joe doesn't fumble a few times trying to dig up their third most recent missed call and save it. Now add the confusion of an emergency Wouldn't you really rather have the most basic device possible? 'Course, that's just me. The idea with the Barryvox, is that you set the settings before you use it. Then in the field the only thing to worry about is switching from analog to digital and back, if you configured it that way. And hey, if it gets more people reading the manual, that's a good thing, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammut_rep Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Toast, Like I said earlier, most people won't need to adjust any settings on the unit. It's good to go right out of the box. You have the OPTION of changing the settings if you want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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