Good winter insulated jacket -- recommendations?

[crazybrit]

I'm looking for a new winter insulated jacket. For winter climbs. Probably Hood/Adams (i.e upto 12k' - not Rainier).

 

Right now I have a Paragonia Puffball. Not warm enough.

 

My layering system while I'm active/moving is:

 

Moonstone Cirque (Scholler) softshell jacket

Lowe Alpine midweight polypro base shirt

Mammut Champ pants

REI lightweight polypro long underwear

 

Works great but when I stop, the puffball just doesn't cut it. Need something with more warmth.

 

I tried on the Feathered Friends Volant (w/ 800 fill upgrade) and Epic shell when I was in Seattle this week. Seemed nice but it's always hard to tell in the store and if i'm going to drop $260+ on one, I want to do some research.

 

So .... I'm curious what others recommend. Does anyone have any comparative experience of several jackets or point me to reviews (couldn't find anything online which included the Volant). Just saying I have brand XXX and it's great by itself doesn't help me much :-)

 

Also what about the next model up in the FF line, the Frontpoint? Overkill for what I need?? I liked the thicker collar, zipper windproofing and extra length of the Frontpoint over the Volant. Of course, none of this comes for free. Just in terms of packability it was about 25% bigger than the Volant. Leightweight and packability is what I like about the Puffball. I don't want to be thinking do I really want to carry this sucker each time I pack for a climb.

 

I guess it all goes back to "how much warmth" do I need.

 

In the end I'm assuming that weight/amount of fill and fill rating (650, 700 or 800) pretty much dictates the performance of a jacket warmth wise (for purposes of comparison)? Most everyone seems to be into lightweight shells so I wonder how much difference this makes. Clearly issue for breathability/water-resistance.

 

Also, Hood or option to add would be nice.

 

Tony

[Figger_Eight]

Whether it's 12k or 14k, you could still get spanked pretty hard in the winter on any of the volcanoes. I would be comfortable taking a Volant up in the winter, but a Frontpoint certainly wouldn't be overkill.

 

Fill weight is one of a few factors when determining the warmth of a jacket. You can get a 650 fill jacket to be as warm as an 800 fill, but it'll be a bit heavier.

[Don_Serl]

Right now I have a Paragonia Puffball. Not warm enough.

 

I tried on the Feathered Friends Volant (w/ 800 fill upgrade) and Epic shell when I was in Seattle this week.

 

I don't want to be thinking do I really want to carry this sucker each time I pack for a climb.

 

Also, Hood or option to add would be nice.

 

Tony

 

Patagonia Puffball (and the myriad of other similar choices) are not designed for winter. they are great for what they are, but they generally have only 3-5 oz/sq yd [100-150gms/sq m] insulation, so they're kinda analagous to a summer sleeping bag.

 

for full winter, you generally need 6 oz/sq yd [200gm/sq m] or more of synthetic fill, which gets a bit heavy. a nice (and much-ignored) possibility which i've had lots of seasons of use out of is the Integral Designs Dolomitti jacket. 5oz Primaloft (borderline for full winter). i find the elastic cuffs and hem simple and really effective, despite the current unpopularity of this construction. it's cut nice and roomy, so it layers easily over everything.

i cut all the contrast fabric off the shoulders and pocket flaps, cuz it's taslan and snow clings to it - plus, makes it lighter.

see: http://www.integraldesigns.com/product_detail.cfm?id=696

 

FF makes superb down gear, but i'd advise against shell fabrics with restricted breathability, such as Epic. true, this provides better resistence to puking wet snow, but more of the time it tends to hold moisture within the jacket, which leads to condensation within the insulation layer on the inside of the shell. this isn't much of an issue for day-use, but will be a serious problem if you're out for a week or more.

 

Mountain Hardware has a great down garment selection.

MEC in Vancouver is worth checking out.

Taiga Works in Vancouver makes pretty darn nice down stuff, and they're cheap, but they don't even have a website, so you'd have to visit the store.

 

cheers,

[crazybrit]

Yeah I was concerned about internal condensation/EPIC. The woman at FF didn't really seem to understand what I was saying. Of course I think I'm looking at 70% single day use, 20% 2-3 days and very little > 3 day winter trips.

 

I guess there is always the option of going with an eVent laminate for the Volant. IIRC eVent is heavier, less waterresistant but more breathable than EPIC.

 

The Patagonia "Down Parka" looks good too but I'm guessing the shell will be more like EPIC.

 

I guess it would be possible to take the specs for MEC, Mt Hardware, FF etc and compare the fill weight/fill-type. Trying to compare shell fabrics as well. I'll have probablty purchased cars in less time :-)

FF makes superb down gear, but i'd advise against shell fabrics with restricted breathability, such as Epic. true, this provides better resistence to puking wet snow, but more of the time it tends to hold moisture within the jacket, which leads to condensation within the insulation layer on the inside of the shell. this isn't much of an issue for day-use, but will be a serious problem if you're out for a week or more.

[Figger_Eight]

The Epic shell is MORE breathable than any laminate (Event or Dryloft). The fibers themselves are encapsulated with silicone, eliminating the need to glue an additional membrane to the facing fabric. You now have one layer of material vs. three layers (including glue).

 

When dealing with breathability issues with heavy down parkas the discussion is only relevant with respect to the parka drying out from an external heat source (the sun)...not drying out from your body heat. In order for vapor to escape there needs to be a temperature gradiant present to drive the vapor through the outer fabric. If the heat from your body reaches the outer fabric...well the parka isn't doing a real good job of insulating you from the cold.

 

The only time you're going to be wearing the parka is when you're standing around...not climbing - so sweating shouldn't be that big of a consideration.

[JayB]

You might also consider a synthetic if you are going to be doing much winter mountaineering around here - something like the Patagonia DAS or the Cloudveil Enclosure.

[robpatterson5]

I'm sorta looking at something along these lines, is a parka along the lines of the Wild Things Belay Jacket warm enough for a Volcano Slog?

Cheers: Rob

[layton]

Go Lite 6 month night parka!

super warm and super cheap, full retail $99

you can find it cheap as $65 new

I use it for all N.cascades winter forays.

[crazybrit]

> Go Lite 6 month night parka!

> super warm and super cheap

 

How small does it pack down? I'd heard the Go-Lite was pretty bulky.

 

IIRC Polarguard compresses less than Primaloft which of course is less compressible than down.

 

Regarding previous persons comment about "consider synthetic". Of course, assuming I can get similar warmth in a package which compresses down at least close to what down would. \

For my usage (80%1 day), warmth is #1, weight/compressibility is #2, resisting lots of water is #3 priority.

[DPS]

I'm sorta looking at something along these lines, is a parka along the lines of the Wild Things Belay Jacket warm enough for a Volcano Slog?

Cheers: Rob

 

I used mine in Alaska, its a very warm parka. Too warm for Cascades winter climbing, except for maybe Rainier. I think the EP Jacket is better suited for Cascade winters.

 

I sold my down jacket and got a Wild Things Primaloft sweater for the cascades. I found that down does not work well in the wet climate.

Edited December 3, 2004 by danielpatricksmith

[fullofadventure]

Taiga does have a website now so no need to make the long journey up here to see them. Here ya go.

 

http://www.taigadirect.com/products.html

[fenderfour]

I noticed that OR has some new, really reasonably priced down sweaters on their website.

OR Down

[cracked]

Their 'belay jacket' is even better than the Coal, and I found one on sale for 99 bucks!!

 

I also have the 6mo night and find it's overkill for most of my winter trips, ie, skiing. Good for belaying at Smith, though.

[layton]

for a savings of that much money (on the go-lite) i think you could just stuff harder.

get a good down jkt with dryloft from marmot or valandre' if you're gonna spend any more than $100...might as well go all the way. if it is cold enough to wear the thing, then it's probably not gonna rain.

I've endured drippy belays ice climbing in a marmot parbat and have kept it dry...yes I own both...i've had the marmot 7 years though.

[crazybrit]

Thanks everyone for all the info.

 

Found this on CC whilst poking around. Seemed to give some interesting quantifications:

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/threadz/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/110666/page//vc/1

 

I'll have to do some poking around to find out the fill weight of the various synthetics mentioned on this thread. I'm guessing the FF Volant would fit the defition "good baffled down jacket" and thus be warmer than the 8oz Primaloft.

 

I agree, the Go-Lite price is good. You can always stuff harder, but all depends on our relative pack size etc. Wouldn't mind checking one out (if for no other reason than other CC articles suggest checking it 1st hand for sizing). Anyone know of a store in town (PDX) which has one. I doubt it but doesn't hurt to ask :-)

 

Time to start hitting the stores ....

 

Thanks again

[Gary_Yngve]

I bought a GoLite 6-month-night for cheap, and I really like it. It doesn't pack down well, but I'm usually not too concerned about volume.

 

It's super-warm -- I bivied in the jacket a few times this summer. I've also layered it over my old-and-not-so-puffy down bag when it's been really cold or when my down bag was soaked.

[crazybrit]

Whats the name of the closeout place? Think it's under the Morrison Bridge or in that general area.

 

Check Next Adventure.

[wdietsch]

It's not $99 but $150 ain't too bad

 

 

Mountain Gear-GoLite Belay Jacket

[Jedi]

Rab Neutrino: Pertex Quantum, 750+ down, 7.8oz fill, total wt 19.5oz. This is with a hood.

 

Patagonia Down Jkt: 8oz fill, 22oz total.

 

Volant w/ hood: 9.6oz fill, 26oz.

 

Nunatuk Kobuk w/hood: 11oz 800+ fill, 26oz in Epic,

24oz in Microlight and 20oz with no external pockets.

 

Marmot Plasma: Pertex, fill (I don't know), 27oz to 29oz.

 

FrontPoint: 13oz of fill, 30oz total.

 

Nunatuk Torre:14oz of fill, 31oz total

 

There are heavier & warmer jackets out there but this should give you an idea of some down hooded jackets.

Jedi

[fullofadventure]

Crazybrit said “I guess there is always the option of going with an eVent laminate for the Volant. IIRC eVent is heavier, less water-resistant but more breathable than EPIC.”

 

And

 

Figure eight said, “The Epic shell is MORE breathable than any laminate (Event or Dryloft). The fibers themselves are encapsulated with silicone, eliminating the need to glue an additional membrane to the facing fabric. You now have one layer of material vs. three layers (including glue).”

 

 

I would have to disagree strongly with both statements above. eVENT is heavier than epic but much more breathable and defiantly far more water resistant than Epic. Actually eVENT is 100% waterproof and Epic is only rated as highly water resistant. Epic will eventually wet out after long rains (6-8 hours or so) and start to let water droplets pass through where as eVENT will not. All the info coming in on eVENT so far shows it to be the most breathable waterproof membrane made to date. Period. Also just because a fabric only has one layer vs. a 3 layer does not mean it will vent out moister/vapor better/faster.

 

I own the Integral Designs eVENT jacket that only weighs 9.5oz in a size large and can tell you that it is very breathable(i can actually run in it)and totally waterproof.

[JohnHemlock]

I like the Wild Things Belay and the Patagonia DAS, and probably favor the Belay. Both are quite warm and I don't think I've ever worn one while on the move. I usually pull it out for belays and bivys.

 

For a good "on the go" jacket that is surprisingly warm, I like the Wild Things EP.

[cracked]

defiantly far more water resistant

 

Your jacket might be defiant but mine is magnanimous! Defy that!!

[Figger_Eight]

Geez...someone sounds like an eVENT rep

 

A good way to check breathability of a fabric is to seal your lips around the fabric and try to suck air through. (insert crude joke here).

 

It's MUCH easier through Epic the eVENT or Dryloft.

 

Yes...it's less water-resistant than eVENT, but if it's been raining for 6 hours - why are you wearing a down jacket?

[fear_and_greed]

I use a Patagonia DAS. It has served me well in a wide variety of conditions and has a brilliant hood design.

[Ade]

I also have a DAS and really like it although only ever really use it for belaying ice climbing. I have a Wild Things primaloft sweater that I use in the Cascades a fair bit. Really like both but wish the WT had a hood.

 

Can anyone recommend a jacket that sort of weight that has a large hood?

 

Rab Neutrino: Pertex Quantum, 750+ down, 7.8oz fill, total wt 19.5oz. This is with a hood.

 

Where do you get Rab gear in the US?