4 more years of...

[scott_harpell]

Me too, but I will still move back when I am done in December.

[selkirk]

Can you really blame her? The 's are grumpy with us.

[scott_harpell]

Can you really blame her? The 's are grumpy with us.

 

[Dave_Schuldt]

the WAS genocide in Iraq. There IS genocide in Sudan. Access to refuge camps in Daror has been block off by troops. How many will die? We haven't the troops to help, they are all tied up in Iraq dealing with the mes we created.

 

What I hear is that Colin Powel is out. What will we do without a voice for moderation?

We broke Iraq and now we own it. GOOD FUCKING LUCK!

[scott_harpell]

It doesn't help when Annan refuses to call the Dafur/Sudan Conflict a genocide and chastises Bush for using the term. Not having any troops left if just blatant hyperbole. There is not where even near a magority of our forces in Iraq and Afghanistan put together.

[Dave_Schuldt]

Scott list 30 reasons, and they have to be actually different reasons, not the same like your first two examples.

 

[selkirk]

What do you think? should I jump on your spelling? Genocide has nothing to do with anything. It's not why we went to war, it's almost never been why we've gone to war. We've put troops into just a few places for humanitarian places (Somalia, and Bosnia are the only ones I can think of.) It's always about our countries interests, end of story. Pretty much like that with every country, or someone else would already have troops there.

[scott_harpell]

Why do you feel we need 30 when one is all that in necessary. He was attempting genocide on the Kurds. No matter what, the war is justified despite whatever reasons we were duped into believeing.

[Off_White]

we actually had a job candidate tell us this morning she was not going to live her anymore with bush as president. she is selling her house and moving to canada. lucky for her she has dual citizenship ...

 

You know, I've heard that from a number of people, and it pisses me off that people are willing to give up the fight and move away because 2% of the population leans one way versus the other. It's been pointed out that Democrats love to sprint, fight it out in a short race, but really, what's needed is the long game, affecting long term policy and goals is more of a marathon. Giving up because you've taken a strong hit to the jaw is some kind of weak shit, and running away will not save the day.

 

Of course, I recognize that it helps that I'm a middle class middle age white heterosexual male, nothing that Bush and the Republican House and Senate enacts will hurt me that badly. I've already apologized to my 13 year old daughter for the burdens her children will bear.

[scott_harpell]

What do you think? should I jump on your spelling? Genocide has nothing to do with anything. It's not why we went to war, it's almost never been why we've gone to war. We've put troops into just a few places for humanitarian places (Somalia, and Bosnia are the only ones I can think of.) It's always about our countries interests, end of story. Pretty much like that with every country, or someone else would already have troops there.

 

So is any war justified? Have there ever been any wars which were fought for the "right reasons." Truth is that people are always looking to attack you. If you give them an excuse (like genocide) they will do so and claim to be the good guys. It is the way the World works. If you do not understand this or are not willing to play by these rules, you have no place in international politics.

[selkirk]

I depends on how you define "justified", and everyone defines it a little differently. Some people require a great deal more evidence or cause before they consider it justified.

 

Was he an asshole, yes.

Did he at one time commit genocide, yes.

Did he have WMD's, questionable at the time.

Was he a threat to the US, questionable.

Invading would give us a stronger foothold in the region (i.e the bases were building there), absolutely.

Does it to some degree secure an oil interest, for us, yes.

 

Are those reasons collectively sufficient justification to go to war? Now that becomes a personal decision.....Scott says, absolutely, I would say no... That doesn't make either of us right or wrong though.

[cj001f]

So is any war justified? Have there ever been any wars which were fought for the "right reasons."

Harpell,

We've gone over this before. Again and again. You bring up conspiracy theories to debate this - then accuse "liberals" of wearing tinfoil hats.

 

WW2 - the Japs bombed our asses. THEY STRUCK FIRST. We went to war with them. When someone attacks you it's well within your power to defend yourself.

[scott_harpell]

So is any war justified? Have there ever been any wars which were fought for the "right reasons."

Harpell,

We've gone over this before. Again and again. You bring up conspiracy theories to debate this - then accuse "liberals" of wearing tinfoil hats.

 

WW2 - the Japs bombed our asses. THEY STRUCK FIRST. We went to war with them. When someone attacks you it's well within your power to defend yourself.

 

It is not a conspiracy theory. It is in every history book of any detail. It is a fact that FDR was forced into signing a document that meant that Japan was fucked. They either had to retreat or fight. Given their culture, it was obvious that they would fight. There is no doubt about that.

[dryad]

i'm truly surprised by my reaction to this. i am genuinely depressed. during the last debacle, i saw the results and moved on. this time, i truly don't feel like leaving the house. ugggh

 

I feel the same way as minx on this one and I finally figured out why. This election demonstrates the final triumph of anti-intellectualism in this country. The last election was a sign, but a lot of us were optimistically thinking, yeah maybe people could be fooled into electing a dumbass one time, but they'll see the error of their ways once they see him in action, plus he wasn't really elected anyway, so this will all sort itself out the next time around. Well, wrong. The majority of Americans saw the idiocy and decided they liked it. Now we bicoastal urban secular non-NASCAR-watching "culturally elite" types fully realize just how fundamentally different we are from the rest of America, and this sense of disconnect is depressing.

[scott_harpell]

This election demonstrates the final triumph on anti-intellectualism in this country

 

Give me a break. You think that you are the intellegentsia? You have got te be joking. You are all working class stiffs and you feel that you have it all figured out. Jesus you are Narcissistic!

[tivoli_mike]

We won't be NASCAR-free for long though!

 

WooHoo Marysville

[scott_harpell]

"culturally elite"

 

You ahve got to be joking me. You think Phish is the cultural elite?

[ChrisT]

i'm truly surprised by my reaction to this. i am genuinely depressed. during the last debacle, i saw the results and moved on. this time, i truly don't feel like leaving the house. ugggh

 

 

I feel the same way as minx on this one and I finally figured out why. This election demonstrates the final triumph on anti-intellectualism in this country. The last election was a sign, but a lot of us were optimistically thinking, yeah maybe people could be fooled into electing a dumbass one time, but they'll see the error of their ways once they see him in action, plus he wasn't really elected anyway, so this will all sort itself out the next time around. Well, wrong. The majority of Americans saw the idiocy and decided they liked it. Now we bicoastal urban secular non-NASCAR-watching "culturally elite" types fully realize just how fundamentally different we are from the rest of America, and this sense of disconnect is depressing.

I think I was more bummed out in 2000. This time around I felt that Bush had the incumbent advantage and he campaigned a lot harder than BushI did when he was the incumbent. So I was a little prepared for the loss...and don't worry gals..we'll have another shot in only 4 more years. (what's more disappointing is the dismal state of Washington state politics )

[thelawgoddess]

This election demonstrates the final triumph of anti-intellectualism in this country.

so then the questions becomes, what do the intellectuals do now?

[Gary_Yngve]

Whoever said that there's gonna be some fucking raging punk rock the next four years is right on.

 

Speaking of being all bummed about the election, some good punk music will let me channel all of my negative election feelings into a productive workday.

[selkirk]

This election demonstrates the final triumph on anti-intellectualism in this country

 

Give me a break. You think that you are the intellegentsia? You have got te be joking. You are all working class stiffs and you feel that you have it all figured out. Jesus you are Narcissistic!

 

Says the guy studying multiple languages on his way to OCS

Looking at Counter Intel beause of my language skills

as opposed to regular old boot camp, and living in one of the most highly educated parts of the country. Edited November 3, 2004 by selkirk

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Whoever said that there's gonna be some fucking raging punk rock the next four years is right on.

 

Speaking of being all bummed about the election, some good punk music will let me channel all of my negative election feelings into a productive workday.

 

 

"If we are against you

then we are against you because you're a:

TURNCOAT! KILLER! LIAR! THIEF!

criminal with protection of the law"

 

[cj001f]

Give me a break. You think that you are the intellegentsia? You have got te be joking. You are all working class stiffs and you feel that you have it all figured out. Jesus you are Narcissistic!

 

Since when do working class stiffs work professional jobs? Your average climber is more intelligent, better educated and better paid than the population at large. That qualifies as an elite.

 

I can never tell if your stupid, a troll, or just a loon.

[Sundog]

The Dow (+160) and NASDAQ (+39) spiked up upon Kerry giving up and the uncertainty being removed. Then it drifted down until Kerry spoke, where upon it drifted back up a bit. Oil futures went from -$.50 to +$1.26 when the markets factored in 4 more years of Bush.

Then Bush spoke, saying he loved his wife, campaign workers, America and God. He pledged unity and bringing the country back together.

All the companies under indictment from the NY Attorney General rose, along with oil, defense, and the overcharging drug companies. Hmmm? The NASDAQ market and retail stocks all fell, reflecting a belief that growth would stall. Hmmm? The dollar plunged against other currencies and gold rose, reflecting uncertainty again. Hmmm?

The vast majority of financial traders are republicans and surely voted for George Bush. But unlike most republicans, they are not naive enough or blindly stuck on their doctrine enough, to believe what he says.

Good luck to you all during the next four years.

[jmace]

Another quick question: if most people on this board think Bush is stupid and a very bad president yet he receives more votes than any president since 88, where does that leave you?

 

I.E your argument is the majority of americans are ill informed and dont think for themselves or the majority of americans think like bush....?

 

I just was wondering after reading all these posts about how wrong he is yet he is your president, how do you rationalize it?