Another Smith Rock Etiquette Question

[AlpineK]

Last time at Smith we were looking at a climb on Spiderman buttress when this guy says to us, "Were going to do that climb next..." He was standing at the base of the cliff next to another route, and while we were sitting there he started to lead that other route. I watched him for a couple seconds and then told my partner to go ahead and climb the route we wanted to. I was itching to go off on the guy who told me he'd reserved the route, but he never confronted us.

 

The point is that there are lots of folks out there with crazy ideas like reserving climbs they're not even prepairing to do. If someone is waiting in front of me I respect that as long as they don't bumble around. I also wouldn't climb right up on someone, but I figure that's for my safety as well as being polite. In the example given in the first post I think you guys gave them plenty of space, and they had unrealistic expectations on what other climbers should do.

 

[Drederek]

I've had similar experiences on easier climbs at Smith. It seems to me on the harder ones people are a bit more respectful of each other. It probably has more to do with the crowding than anything else, it seems the easy climbs always have lines. Smith Rock etiquette is practically an oxymoron.

[Gary_Yngve]

I pretty much agree with AlpineK's sentiments.

[Thrill]

There isn’t a “golden rule” of climbing and that is the very reason there are so many of these “etiquette” threads, given that, I agree that they allowed you to pass and that following up is a multi-pitch route is not only common but usually acceptable.. she had a bad climb and wanted someone to blame is all.

 

But I do have to disagree with the notion… “first on a multipitch trad route doesn’t entitle you to being first to the top.”

 

If you want to begin following up on a multi-pitch route then power to ya, but my policy has always been that if you try to pass me you’ll get bonked with my #11 hex.

[mattp]

Mr. Thrill, I realize that many climbers feel as you do, and I have seen where people have created real problems trying to pass another party in the middle of a climb. However, if the situation is handled properly it is often possible for one party to pass another - even in the middle of a pitch, with no problem. It all depends on the situation and the climbers involved, but I'd be very angry if you took a completely inflexible attitude about this when your party was clogging some classic and crowded climb on a sunny Saturday.

[glassgowkiss]

If you want to begin following up on a multi-pitch route then power to ya, but my policy has always been that if you try to pass me you’ll get bonked with my #11 hex.

being slow and inexperienced doesn't give you licence to act like a dumbass. my policy for people like you is to bend you over, shove a camalot #4 up your ass till it goes click... and then make you lick your own ass. hey mr west-coast-i-am-the-center-of-the-fucking-universe, you know there are other climbers too. fuck you very much wanker

[Thrill]

Mr. Matt,

Your opinion is duly noted yet my policy has been quite effective for many years.

The things many people forget to remember is that if you don’t know anything about the person you are approaching, then you best make friends before assuming you have a “right”.

As you mentioned, it does depend on the situation. The situation can be good or bad based on your own decisions.

[ketch]

Thrill, I may take your approach if someone raced up on me and told me they were passing now. I think that it is fair for the first on to be first and the other party should ask to pass. This done it is only reasonable that the second party be allowed as soon as an agreement as to how can be made.

 

On the other hand. If I was on the sharp end and had a newbie belay slave tagging along. I may not agree with the "passing strategy" that they arranged.

[Thrill]

Hey Glass, you know exactly what you can kiss.

You speak like a true champion.. you know exactly how long I’ve been climbing and what grades I climb at don’t ya? Matter of fact you are such a smart guy that you should just go on passing anyone you feel in route, eh? Go for it dude, you’ll know when you meet me.

[Thrill]

Ketch

I think you got my point. I let a party pass us at Red Rocks since we had three and they were kicking ass. It's not like it doesnt happen.

But I hold true to my policy when deemed necessary. For example. .. Glasslowkiss.

 

Like I said it's just MY policy.. doesnt have to be for everyone.

[RuMR]

There isn’t a “golden rule” of climbing and that is the very reason there are so many of these “etiquette” threads, given that, I agree that they allowed you to pass and that following up is a multi-pitch route is not only common but usually acceptable.. she had a bad climb and wanted someone to blame is all.

 

But I do have to disagree with the notion… “first on a multipitch trad route doesn’t entitle you to being first to the top.”

 

If you want to begin following up on a multi-pitch route then power to ya, but my policy has always been that if you try to pass me you’ll get bonked with my #11 hex.

hey thrill...that's pretty lame...oftentimes its really no big deal for someone to pass? Why would you want to hold up a faster party and have them breathing down your neck??? That's pretty lame and selfish...

[mattp]

The things many people forget to remember is that if you don’t know anything about the person you are approaching, then you best make friends before assuming you have a “right”.

 

I don't know what "knowing about them" has to do with it, but this statement is equally true, I think, if turned completely around. Any amount of respect the following party owes the leading one is matched by the same amount of respect, and in fact more care, that the leading party owes the following one.

 

Like I said, though, it all depends on the situation and, for example, I hope you do not take this attitude on longer climbs in an alpine setting. Or, even at Smith Rock, if you are on a "classic" and have a member of your party who is completely over their head so you are taking way longer on a route than is "standard."

[glassgowkiss]

Hey Glass, you know exactly what you can kiss.

You speak like a true champion.. you know exactly how long I’ve been climbing and what grades I climb at don’t ya? Matter of fact you are such a smart guy that you should just go on passing anyone you feel in route, eh? Go for it dude, you’ll know when you meet me.

hey nibblenuts- there are only a handful of people in this part of the world, who climbed longer then me. second i still can climb semi- hard on ocasion. you said something stupid and you were cought, so shut the fuck up. i know two thing for sure: you never climbed in the alps (or you would not post a bullshit answer like that) and you come across like a self centered dick without a sense of humor. i'll give you a benefit of the doubt as internet is not the best medium for this sort of shit. one thing for sure- you don't climbvery much. because if you did you'd know that sometimes you will pass and sometimes you'll get passed, such is life. and there is no reason to get your panties all bunched up. you just do it- really simple

[RuMR]

 

right on matt!

[Thrill]

Rumr,

 

maybe it is lame that is your opinion to have. I'll have my own. Smith Rocks and the amount of people that climb there have changed things.. about climbing in general. Because of the production line theory everyone thinks it should be get-on-get-off, as fast as you can thing.

Trad climbing is different and most trad climbers would agree.. it’s more mellow, laid back, take your time and make good placements, enjoy the peace. It often involves areas that are not as packed as Smith, yet even at Smith Rocks there are trad areas to hike to, to get away from the crowds… point in the matter is if you begin to have this attitude that “I’m faster then you , so MOVE.” You might come up on someone that doesn’t play that way. As lame as it may seem to you… I have many friends that agree.

[glassgowkiss]

so thrill, if i am doing a nose in a day i have to wait for your sorry ass? i don't think so. and because of people like you french, italian or british climbers don't really like americans in their areas.

[Thrill]

Hey Glass,

 

Your knowledge is failing you. Your debate of what is “known for sure,” is void. You don’t know anything at all for that matter.

You can keep on guessing as long as you wish. You can keep hoping you’ll win some friends or something.

Truth be told, is that I do let people pass.. just not people like you.

 

Cheers.

[Bogen]

Passing, like playing through in golf, should be VERY politely done, if at all. On really busy routes it's not an option anyway, you 'll just be behind the next group...

10 years ago I was on Diedre with 2 noobs, 1 a girly-girl who didn't climb. We were on the route in the blazing sun for 6 PAINFUL hours, but only because the party ahead of us (or the party ahead of them) was even slower than us. Another time, same route, different noob, we climbed the direct to bypass part of the lineup. Waiting on the ledge above pitch one, fucking around for a snack or something, I totally kicked my pack off the ledge

So, I lowered down to get it, it had travelled an unbelievable distance, almost back to the big stair log. Grabbed it, hoofed back up, tied in, reclimbed the pitch, and STILL waited over an hour to proceed! I don't line up for nuthin anymore, I'ld rather sit in the pub.

[specialed]

In my experience if you wait for the right time and then ask nicely, people will let you pass and be cool about it. If they don't, fuck 'em and climb through. And clip their pro while you're at it.

[Thrill]

Glass,

Your generalization of “Americans” is classic. Should I think that all Europeans are dicks just because you are? Your ideas are joke. Go ahead and do the nose in day.. you shouldn’t have a problem, not from me or anyone else. You’ll probably get cheered on, by Americans. That is until they meet you and get to know the extent of your intelligence

[Ireneo_Funes]

so thrill, if i am doing a nose in a day i have to wait for your sorry ass? i don't think so. and because of people like you french, italian or british climbers don't really like americans in their areas.

 

I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

[glassgowkiss]

thrill, it's easy to hide behind avatar and play cool. most of the pople on this bb board know who i am. but if you don't- this is polishbob. you did say a lot of bullshit so far. so how many years have you climbed? what's your hardest os, what's your hardest rp? what's your hardest ice/mixed climb? what exact routes have you climbed in the alps or dolomites? basically calling your bullshit here. let's hear it. and don't give me this crap "i am not going to brag about my abilities"

[glassgowkiss]

Go ahead and do the nose in day.. you shouldn’t have a problem, not from me or anyone else

already did it twice- how many time do you want me to do the same route?

[Thrill]

p.s. Glass

 

Nothing personal dude, it’s all a fun debate ok?

[Gary_Yngve]

But I do have to disagree with the notion… “first on a multipitch trad route doesn’t entitle you to being first to the top.”

 

If you want to begin following up on a multi-pitch route then power to ya, but my policy has always been that if you try to pass me you’ll get bonked with my #11 hex.

 

I think it's rude to pass without asking first.

 

I think it's rude to refuse to let an obviously faster party pass at the next decent belay.