Lambone Posted September 22, 2004 Author Posted September 22, 2004 "yet you've done so at least twice in the last week." yeah, but not in this thread. I'm not afraid to admit that I'd like to know whether the founders of the WCC use power drills in the wilderness. I'll leave it at that. My assumtion due to the lack of denial is that at least some of them do. i'm not pointing fingers at anyone because I don't know for sure. But I tell you what, if I did know for sure...everyone else would know about it as well. So better not tell Lambone. Maybe I do have a $1,000 to donate...sure would want to make sure my money was going to a cause I support. have a nice day Quote
marylou Posted September 22, 2004 Posted September 22, 2004 If the law were changed to allow for bolting with a power drill in Wilderness, one could also expect to see chainsaws, wheelbarrows, mountain bikes, and snowmobiles in the Wilderness areas. And that's just the beginning of it. Quote
Dru Posted September 22, 2004 Posted September 22, 2004 Not sure where the wheelbarrow thing comes from since hand drills are PERMITTED in wilderness - where is the motor in a wheelbarrow? Quote
MervGriffin Posted September 22, 2004 Posted September 22, 2004 (edited) Lots of interesting ideas and personalities involved in all of this! Thanks, The 'bone, for bringing up this topic! Here are a few quotes that caught my interest along with some commentary. "In a real wilderness you can drill and climb however you like because no one is there to care. Antarctica, the Karakoram, Baffin - walls have bolts." - Warren Hollinger I care. So, can I leave all my garbage there because few will likely see it? I care. Warren did some giant climbs, but he ain't the king. "...just don't climb it...let the invalid route rot in obscurity, there action deserves no attention whatsoever..." That naughty little route on Garfield has sure attracted quite a bit of action! " believe people should always strive to do climbs in the best style they think possible, but never criticize others for what they choose to do. quote by Tommy Caldwell" That's the STUPIDEST cliché I've heard since "The best climber is the one having the most fun!" For more similar shallow "inspirational" babblings, read the article on the Dihedral Wall in one of the latest climbing rags. Tommy-baby...stick to climbing them hard-cracks, quit reading those Nike ads and get yourself a home-study philosophy course for your rare day-off. "Peter Croft just put up a bolted route in an alpine setting in the high sierra ...He climbs for all the right reasons." And these universally acknowledged right reasons are???? Sad, Peter. Very sad. "Why shouldn't a climbers group argue for more climbing? Or the ability to place bolts via powerdrill instead of hand drill. Not that currently illegal practices should be ignored, but advocate for changing the law to permit?" Why argue against power drills??? Haven't you noticed the oppositon among some climbers against such drills and against other forms of bolting??? If there are efforts to change the law to allow power drilling, than I hope there is first a HUGE debate as to the legitimacy of such and similar activities. And I'd like the Fed's to hear BOTH sides of the argument! - Merv Edited September 22, 2004 by MervGriffin Quote
mattp Posted September 22, 2004 Posted September 22, 2004 She's right -- I think. Wheelbarrows have been seen to be "mechanized" or whatever. Quote
Dru Posted September 22, 2004 Posted September 22, 2004 I am contrasting the stand of snowmobile user groups, that campaign for increased terrain for sleds, to mattp's description of the WCC, which apparently exists to work in the other direction, taking policies that land managers set and enforcing them on climbers... Quote
Stefan Posted September 22, 2004 Posted September 22, 2004 Merv baby! You never quoted me! You taught me this one! I thought this would be at the top of your list! "Man was not designed to touch every fragment of this earth." (IOW, bolting allows humans to touch certain areas of this earth they could not do under their own abilities.) Quote
Dru Posted September 22, 2004 Posted September 22, 2004 Scuba-diving is aid too Stefan. Don't bolt the coral! Quote
Stefan Posted September 22, 2004 Posted September 22, 2004 Scuba-diving is aid too Stefan. Don't bolt the coral! Yep. Thank God for the timber companies too! They are my best aid partners in getting to climbs! Otherwise i'd be schwackin way too much! Quote
skykilo Posted September 22, 2004 Posted September 22, 2004 I wouldn't rat on anyone to 'authorities' for anything short of rape or murder. Now, all apologies to everyone for getting off topic, but... Stefan: I disagree. I can't count the number of times I've bushwhacked through some super fucked up brush in second growth. Old growth is always better (more open). We would have almost nothing but old growth if not for timber co.'s, right? I know, I know, the roads that give us access were put there for the timber companies... Quote
Alex Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 I moved this to "Access Issues" as I thought it was a good thread that stayed mostly on track, and gives some good context on the ongoing issues of access, bolting, wilderness, and so on. Quote
Lambone Posted September 23, 2004 Author Posted September 23, 2004 Thanks Alex FYI- Accorindg to someone who claims to know on Supertopo.com...the offending Wilderness Power Driller arrested in the Rock Creek Wilderness, Ca. appears to be Urmas Franosch. Not sure how reliable that is... http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?m=43263&f=0&b=0 Quote
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