hakioawa Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 I've been looking into getting a set of double ropes for alpine routes (50mx8.5mm). Generally I climb longish moderate routes. N. Ridge of stuart etc, usually with a group of 4 or so. I'm curious what people think or doubles. Is it worth the weight and rope handling? I would think it would be quite nice to have an extra rope when rapelling. 3 ropes with 4 people should make routes with lots of single raps go fast. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 With 4 people I would say go for two groups of two, each with a single rope and then join forces for the rapels (if needed). Maybe it's just me but the N. Ridge of Stuart with 4 people sounds like an epic waiting to happen. Double ropes are cool-- well worth it. They make rope teams of three much more manageable. I have climbed with three people using two semi fat ropes and got more of a pump pulling the ropes through the belay device than I did actually climbing. It is much easier to belay two people at the same time with skinny ropes. [ 08-06-2002, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: Matt ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 They are expensive, but I'd go with the Edelweiss stratos. They have a unique filament in the core which allows an 8.8 or 9 mm to be rated to hold a fall over a sharp edge and this means that, while it is not a good idea to do serious rock climbing on a single "half rope," a single 9mm stratos is adequate for just about any lead on a "moderate" alpine route so you have the option of carrying one 9mm instead of two 9's or a 10.5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Check out Marmot in Bellevue; they have some small diameter ropes on sale. Some Edelweiss present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Alford Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Double ropes rock (no pun intended), especially with groups of two or three that require long raps. Rope drag is less, traverses are easier to protect, and the management thing can be addressed with a little practice at the crags. I feel safe on a double as well. I don't understand why the system isn't more popular here in the US? I agree about looking for an epic with four on N. Ridge of Stuart. And since it requires no raps I would be inclined to take a 60 meter 9.6 rope. Have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 I like double ropes and have been using them for years, but things can become tangled if you aren't used to them. Matt is right - try it out at the crags so you can get practice the rope management - but there will be different issues on more moderate terrain so be prepared to face a learning curve there, too. I don't understand the concern for a party of four on Stuart. Yes, a large party is slow IF YOU TRAVEL AS ONE ROPE TEAM, but for alpine climbing I believe two competent pairs of two is often the best way to go. You can share the load for things like stoves and camping equipment, and you have a lot more options should anything run afoul (a group of four is better able to perform crevasse rescue, send someone for help, belay the leader climbing back up to retrieve a rappel route that has become stuck, etc.). And I don't think it likely that the upper pair will be dropping rocks on the lower pair on a ridge route like Stuart's N. ridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 As people say, it's a great system. Plus, you can elect to take just a single one of them, and use it in doubled fashion as a really lightweight rope system for easier climbs Obviously this limits your reach a bit, but if you're planning on doing lots of simulclimbing, it works really well. Personally, I find the trend towards longer and longer ropes weird. I feel like the more I climb, the less rope I've been getting by with. I guess it's a matter of wandering, blocky alpine routes versus long, clean yosemite style climbs. At the end of the day, they're like shoes or backpacks: you need a different one for every occassion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidW Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 I've been using double ropes for years..... primarily because much of what I climb requires two rope rappels to get off of. Doubles stretch a bit more when you fall on them (so I'm told!) which makes for a soft catch but a longer fall. Taking a pair of ropes to Vantage sure makes ya feel like you've got your shirt on backwards tho... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Double ropes have their uses but I am still into one big fatty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Don't listen to Tex he's only a chronic gumby. I'd use double ropes, but like everything in climbing, I'm scared to try something new like that when life is on the line (even though it seems to make a lot of sense w/ 3). I just need to give it a try I suppose. Do people typically use an ATC or equiv. for two followers? Or some new-fangled reverso deal? Seems like a lot of rope management at small belay ledges? Sorry if my inexperience in this shines thru... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Iain, In my mind, the biggest advantage of the double ropes is in the belay of the leader, not of the followers. Not only does proper use of doubles reduce rope drag, but it also allows the leader to have a tight belay to the last piece when he or she is recieving slack to clip the next one. However, the belayer has to learn how to manage the ropes so that they can feed one while taking the other in -- and this proves to be troublesome enough that some belayers will end up letting fo of the rope altogether or allowing significant unnecessary slack on the rope which runs through the last piece. It takes practice. Paritcularly on slab climbs, I use the ATC with two followers. I believe I can safely do so but many knowledgeable climbers insist that this is not possible and the reverso or something like it is the only safe way to go. It is certainly a lot easier, assuming you can get it off your waist and onto the anchors (I find it more clumsy otherwise). At the belay ledges, I just pile the rope as it comes in, just like I would with a single line. Most of the time there is no additional problem here but sometimes the two lines get twisted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Amazing what just 20 posts will do to some peoples heads isn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Check out this good discussion from a while back http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000254 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Thanks matt, good info. I'll check it out (I often end up in a group of three so this has my interest). You don't seem to mind mixing ropes w/ different histories. I would probably like to use one line as a glacier rope periodically (I'm not loaded w/ cash so I have to get the most out of this stuff). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 One of my partners is a double rope guy (hi Dave), so I've just started using a set, and I pretty much manage to tangle them up every time I rap. They are a lot tanglier, and they do stretch a TON if you're used to a regular 10.5. I'm already able to give a nice clean belay with them though, and it sho'is convenient having all of that rope with you when it's time to get down. All in all, they're pretty cool. Dave forgot to mention that the Trango ATC, the funny looking one with the asym design, grabs the ropes a lot better than a typical ATC. You get a hot brake hand rapping with a regular one. Anyone feel like hearing a little tune? I do. [ 08-06-2002, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: allison ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 In general is there any need for 60m doubles? I'm assuming not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 Depends on how much crap you are willing to carry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 quote: Originally posted by jon: In general is there any need for 60m doubles? I'm assuming not. a "need" or a "want"? (i can totally envision a want!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 just spend the extra $10 or so for a bipattern (or bicolor) rope. you'll ***LOVE*** the thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 quote: Originally posted by thelawgoddess: just spend the extra $10 or so for a bipattern (or bicolor) rope. you'll ***LOVE*** the thing! sorry; wrong thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 Thanks for answering my question ladies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 quote: Originally posted by jon: In general is there any need for 60m doubles?... I think this was mentioned in the thread referenced above, but on alpine climbs the 60m will allow you to stretch out pitches reducing the overall number of pitches, belays, etc. I am sure opinions and/or experiences can, and will, be given for either side of this argument but I think that 60's would be nice and not that much more weight. Greg W Bow to the vocal stylings of Uriah Heap: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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