Beacon Rock Ethics ?

[markd]

Thanks for sharing so much history with us Bill. That was a lot of information and great to hear about.

 

As far as your "old fart variation"..........If I were you I would do it. Personally I think it would be a nice contribution to Beacon. I've looked down that corner many times and wondered why your route wasn't still their. I also know plenty of people who climbed it and thought it was a terrific route. I'd say it would be a shame if you put all the work into rebolting it and some faceless wuss went and chopped it.

 

Lastly I think it's good to talk about this stuff and get it out in the open. So anyone who disagrees now is your chance to step up and let your voice be heard.

 

Here's to Beacon

mark

 

edit: incorrect information given

Edited August 12, 2004 by markd

[ivan]

why not say Damn the Man, not bolt anything on the south side, and grid bolt the wilderness of the north side? jim seemed to have a great opinion on that...maybe he could do all the hard work.

 

seriously, bill, i think rebolting your route is a capital idea

 

[Hanger]

Holy sh*t!!

 

Great reading Bill...IMHO, a well thoughout rap-bolt, roto-hammered route is better than POS bolts placed after the crux cuz the bolter had to use hooks on lead with a hand drill (aka J-Tree routes)

 

I also understand the importance of keeping it clean and avoiding the cycle of grid-bolting (aka Williamson)

 

Hey Bill, I know that you put a lot of thought into route development and have tons of experience regarding it...so I say go make the crag a better place for all of us to enjoy.

 

-Hanger

[Don_Gonthier]

Bill.

The guy who chopped your route claimed to have done it several years earlier without the bolts and with reasonable protection. The guy is a long-time Portland climber and I believe him when he says he did the route before you placed bolts in it. It seems to me that one way to avoid the "you bolted my route and now I'm going to chop it" bolt wars is to have some kind of acurrate list of routes with information on who climbed it, when they did it and where exactly the route went. Gee, that sounds like a guide book. I know that that's something that you don't like and I understand the feeling. Hell, maybe you climbed your old farts variation 20 years ago and really are the first asccentionist and you just forgot about it. My point is, is that it might be possible to avoid much confusion and maintain the limited boltting on the south face of beacon in the future if someone were to keep this kind of information in some more freely accessible place than Jim Opdycke's brain. It doesn't have to be a published guide book, a simple photocopied sheet of paper would work fine. I bet Jim already has most of it written down somewhere. Or of course you could just accept that someday the bolts you worked hard to place will be missing and the next day, the route you worked your ass off and risked your neck to free on natural gear is a "clip and go" sport route with a line gym rats at the bottom waiting to get the pink point.

Don

[billcoe]

Owww. ?

 

Thanks Don, that is well spoken.

 

Done before? Who would that be? Burly lead. Feel free to PM me if you wish.

 

Jim O suggested it would be OK to put the bolts back in there. Knowing your info, I would not. Jim can though if he wants too. I see Jim @ once a year and I don't even get what he knows has been happening which obvioulsy isn't all of it.

 

It just reinforces your point Don. This was bolted and chopped before Bob, Dave or I learned of this site or RC.com. Since there isn't 1 location for knowledge, nobody will know it all.

 

For instance, Markd has thought he has done some new routes, however, in a vacumn of information, it could very well be possible that A) Mark repeated someone elses line. B) Someone will repeat one of Marks new ones thinking its new and toss in bolts.

 

Knowledge is power.

 

Edited July 28, 2004 by billcoe

[markd]

If the consensus is to start keeping better track of the new routes and the recently freed aid lines, I'm all for it. I have all the beta on the routes that Eric and I did last year at Beacon as well as the routes I've done at other various crags around Portland. I'm not sure I want to post topos on the web,just yet, but I would be glad to meet with whoever wants to be in charge of gathering all the info. For that matter I would happy to do it if anyone has routes they want "credit" for.

mark

[rbw1966]

Hey Mark--did you used to work at the Bagdad?

[markd]

rbw1966--I never worked at the Bagdad.

[Johnny_R]

Geeze, I've just today actually explored this fun site (not one to ever claim to be a "first adapter") and discoved that there's a collection of folks I've had the pleasure to climb and otherwise play with during the years past who have had occasion to post here. Excellent. Wild Willie was my first and best rock teacher and Tex kicked serious posterior back in '01 as the runner on the Fun Hog Gang S2S team. Then there's Bobbo M. and David "pirate rings" E. who shared a Lotus ledge with me up there in canuk land years ago. And not to forget that wonderous day on snag ledge when Mr. Beacon Rock wanted to name Rock Master "Leave It To Beaver" in honor of Miss G but was outvoted by the very Miss G. Darn! I liked LITB better . Thanks for bringing back great memories. (P.S. I still get out every blue moon and can still lead trad at 4.9 and better on a good day.)

[billcoe]

John! Welcome back dude! You have a whole lot of reminicing there in a short paragraph.

 

You forgot all about Yosemite and Giorgio?

 

Dave E (your Lotus Flower Tower ledge buddy, Bob McMahon and I were all roofing Bobs garage last Saturday. You would have been welcome to join in the fun!

 

I was racking my brain for a bit thinking that only Jim, Gini and I were there for the Leave it to Beaver/Rock Master discussion, finally put it together.

 

Wild Willie was my first and best rock teacher

 

 

If thats a compliment I gracefully and gratefully accept. Always nice to see someone you bring into the fold out climb ya. (Common occurance for me).

 

Hope all is well with you.

[JosephH]

I was under the impression that bolting was no longer allowed out at Beacon, is that not the case or are folks just doing it anyway?

[texplorer]

If that ever was the case it is not true now. However, rampant bolting of new lines will bring down the wrath of local choppers. It is still pretty much a trad area. A few new lines are going up that have sections of sparse pro and in these sections bolts are still being placed. I do not know of any sport lines being put up and hope that the current ethics continue to stay that way.

[JosephH]

Moved this post to the "Access Issues" forum list under "Bolting at Beacon Rock".