Blakej Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 I've been considering getting into guiding(somthing I have no experience in) and was wondering if anyone could recommend companies to look into in washington. I'm an experienced backpacker and beginner mountaineer and just want to get a taste even if it means me being a pack bitch for some lama company next summer. Suggestions...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_Martin Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Apply for positions in late february and March.  Article  Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 That is a cool little article Jason. Would you say that completing an AMGA course is a pre-req for being hired on with a guiding company? Or is it something that you can look into afterward if you want to expand your guiding opportunities. Â I have always considered guiding full time, and have done some part-time, under the table guiding...but I'm not %100 sure that it is something I'd want to commit to. i.e. I'd want to try it out before investing alot in AMGA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blakej Posted May 19, 2004 Author Share Posted May 19, 2004 I've considered using some of my GI bill for the AMGA courses but from what I understand they are yet to me a standard. More a solid reference and a route to International certification and very expensive at that. Great article. Just reiterates why I want to try if for a season or two for fun and see if I enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_Martin Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 A lot of companies will hire you without major training. However, at the bare minimum you will have to have your Wilderness First Responder certificate to get a fair shake in the hiring process. Â An AMGA course puts you at the head of the pack when companies are looking to hire a guide. First, it means that they don't have to put as much time in training you and second, it may move you up the pay scale a bit at the start. Â For the cost I think an AMGA Rock Instructor Course or Beginning Alpine Guides Course is worth it. Even if you do not choose to continue guiding after a couple seasons, as a climber you will learn a tremendous amount from one of those courses. Â Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miller Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 lambone, Â no, you do not have to complete an AMGA course before getting hired. in fact, given the current order of things, its the other way around. for example, in order to join the AMGA as an individual member, i had to provide documentation of climbs that i had guided and show that i had been guiding for at least two years. and actually getting certified in a discipline is far more involved. however, ive heard that there will be some changes in the next few years and that guides who work with an AMGA accredited company will have to be involved with the AMGA... maybe jason could give you more details on that? Â but as of now, if you are interested in guiding, jason's article is the best piece of advice ive seen as far as what steps you need to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 An AMGA course puts you at the head of the pack when companies are looking to hire a guide. First, it means that they don't have to put as much time in training you and second, it may move you up the pay scale a bit at the start. wrong. first: the company can be insured more easily. the amga is like fukin padi for the diving crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_Martin Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 I've considered using some of my GI bill for the AMGA courses but from what I understand they are yet to me a standard. More a solid reference and a route to International certification and very expensive at that. Great article. Just reiterates why I want to try if for a season or two for fun and see if I enjoy it. Â AMGA Certification is slowly making its way into the land owner mindset. There will be a point some years down the road when this is the norm and not the exception. Â What's cool about the courses is that at about the time you usually start thinking about guiding, you have a gut instinct that you really know your stuff. Taking these courses forces you to see how much you don't know and how much more there is out there to the art of climbing. You learn an incredible amount... Â Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_Martin Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 in order to join the AMGA as an individual member, i had to provide documentation of climbs that i had guided and show that i had been guiding for at least two years. and actually getting certified in a discipline is far more involved. Â You can take the beginning courses without being an individual member. Â Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 What's cool about the courses is that at about the time [jason martin] usually start thinking about guiding, [jason martin] have a gut instinct that [jason martin] really know [jason martin] stuff. Taking these courses forces [jason martin] to see how much [jason martin] don't know and how much more there is out there to the art of climbing. [jason martin] learn an incredible amount... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_Martin Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Lummox, Â Yes, you're right. The post was somewhat about me. However, most others who have taken courses discover that they know far less than they thought they knew. Having taken a couple of courses and having guided full time year round, I do think I have a pretty good feeling for what's up with the average climber who moves into guiding. Â Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miller Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 blake, Â not sure what youve been told, but actually the AMGA is the standard in the US, just as the ACMG is in canada, etc, etc. the problem is that at present you dont need to be involved with the AMGA to guide in the US - that is the difference between the US and just about everywhere else, including canada, and may be the source of whatever negative things youve heard about the AMGA. but the guiding industry is still comparatively young in the US, and im certain that things will change. Â but anyway, being part of the IFMGA, AMGA guides are held to the same standard as those from any other IFMGA country. Â hope that clears things up a bit - i know the whole thing is rather confusing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miller Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 word. thats what i was wondering... Â also, do you know anything about changes being made by 2006 concerning guides working for accredited companies and AMGA involvement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_Martin Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 word. thats what i was wondering... also, do you know anything about changes being made by 2006 concerning guides working for accredited companies and AMGA involvement?  In theory companies will have to have a certain amount of certified guides in their given discipline to keep AMGA accrediation. You can read about the 2006 guidelines here.  Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 but anyway, being part of the IFMGA, AMGA guides are held to the same standard as those from any other IFMGA country. The way I understand it, AMGA Guide != UIAGM guide, unless your an AMGA Rock, Alpine & Ski Guide. There are only 30 or so UIAGM guides in the AMGA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blakej Posted May 19, 2004 Author Share Posted May 19, 2004 Nothing negative heard about AMGA miller, just from talking to people it has become very apparent that its not necessary at this time. Not to say it isn't a good thing at all but its nice to know that I can get out and try it out without investing thousands in a certification I dont necessarily need. Back to the original question seeing as several of you guys have guiding experience. Aside from getting experinece and wfr. Building blocks? Start as an assistant treking guide? From talking to one of the RMI guides its invite only and I'm assuming that means getting your face know on rainer or simular places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 what's the difference between God and a mountain guide - God doesn't tell everyone he's a mountain guide when he's drunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulB Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 The way I understand it, AMGA Guide != UIAGM guide, unless your an AMGA Rock, Alpine & Ski Guide. There are only 30 or so UIAGM guides in the AMGA. If you ever plan to work in Canada or Europe, you're pretty much SOL without UIAGM certification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrutch Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 I think all guides should be cewrtified, you would not want a "wannabe" dentist working on your teeth, so why would you want a "wannabe" guide leading you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cman Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 whats the difference between bonds and a mountain guide? - bonds eventually mature and produce something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest_m Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 thrutch - without taking sides, i will just mention that there are some people involved in the guiding industry who believe that the AMGA exists to support and subsidize itself and who object to paying lots of money to be "certified" in disciplines that they (the guides) have decades of experience in. The word "extortion" is sometimes used by these people. Others say that these dinosaurs are standing in the way of the professionalization of guiding which would allow guiding to be a respectable way to actually earn a living in this country. Speaking of which: Â what's the difference between a mountain guide and a large pizza? Â Â the pizza can feed a family of four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Q) What do ski guides and surgeons have in common? A) They both bury thier mistakes.  Q)How many guides does it take to screw in a light bulb? A) One he just holds it in place and he lets the world revolve around him. Editor Q) How does he unscrew it then?  Q) How do you know if there is a mountain guide at a party? A) Don't worry he'll tell you.  Q.) How do you know that Jesus was a rock guide. A.) Well it could be the long hair, beard, hangs out with the same three single guys, always wears the same clothes, is a carpenter in the off season and has scabs on the back of his hands.  This guy walks into a bar has a drink then says to the bartender "I really hate it when people call mountain guides scum" " why is that, are you a mountain guide" says the bartender "No, I am scum!" says the man  Q. What do you get if you cross a moutain guide with a millionaire? A. Something unimaginable  Q. What did the mountain guide get on his IQ test? A. Drool  Q. when would you see a mountain guide at the Ritz. A. You wouldn't!  Q. How do you get a mountain guide off your front doorstep? A. Pay him for the pizza.  New: A guide is leading a client up a challenging first ascent. Every time the guide gets to a particularly dangerous section, he stops and puts on the same red shirt. The guide climbs pitch after difficult pitch, beautifully. As they near the top, the client finally asks about the red shirt. "If I had fallen," says the wise and courageous guide, " this shirt would disguise the blood, and you would not be frightened and loose heart." "Amazing," thought the client, marveling at this forethought. The next day, as they neared the summit, a section more difficult than any before loomed above them. The guide started up, then downclimbed and started rummaging in his pack. "What are you looking for?," asked the client. "My brown pants."   Q) How do you know that Santa is a mountain guide. A) He has a beard, wears the same clothes every day, and only works one day a year.  www.mountainguide.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miller Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 what's the difference between God and a mountain guide - God doesn't tell everyone he's a mountain guide when he's drunk  "whats the difference between god and a mountain guide"?  -god doenst think HE is a mountain guide.  and my personal favorite:  "how do you know if there is a mountain guide at a party?"  -he'll tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormfighter6 Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Back to the original question about getting hired w/ or w/o certification. I would say that becoming a guide is something that happens over time. For instance starting out as a backpack bi**. Getting your WFR is very critical rember when a company hires someone they are looking at several things: a) education and certifications (keeps their liability ins reasonable) b) Experience (one of the BEST teachers are they a rock climber, ice climber etc. ) c) the companies needs ( What positions to fill seasonal full time etc.) d) Personality of potental employee (will they mesh w/ existing employees e) Pay ( what will we have to pay this person) Â You have to ask your self what do you want to guide? you want to know every discipline or just one? Get as much experince under your belt as possible. Becoming a certifined AMGA guide is a long process. If a rope will be involved get as much rope handling skills as possible under your belt practice, practice, practice. If you can show you know what your doing w/ a rope, have basic first aid skills and have a great personality your chances of getting hired greatly increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troubleski Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 you could always call up one of the companies you are thinking of working for and pretend to be booking a trip. Ask them about guide/client ratio. "Senior"/"Junior" guide ratio, and the level training that they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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