Wild Country Forged Friends or Technical Friends?

[UW_climber]

How do people like these two cams? Are they good for beginners (good beginning rack)? Any problems with them, or how do they compare to the other kinds of cams? Thanks.

[Farrgo]

I love tech friends. They're really light weight great for alpine climbing. I tried most of the sizes larger than .5. Anything smaller than that I think you would have a hard time placing. I have used a few forged friends, mostly in the smaller sizes and have found that they can be hard to place unless you have a really clean crack. If you get forged friends just get ones that are bigger than a number 1, because the rigid stem is practically the same size as the camming range which makes it very hard to get a worthwhile placement with the thing.

[Billygoat]

tech

[Ade]

Forged friends are actually lighter and cheaper than the tech friends.

 

The biggest issue with the smaller ones is that if you place them in shallow horizontal cracks a fall will load the stem over an edge. You can mitigate this by tying the stem off (there's a hole in it for this). In larger cracks this isn't so much of an issue as in a lot of cases they're deep enough that the shaft isn't loaded.

 

Buy tech friends in smaller sizes (< #2.5 say) and forged in large sizes. The camming ranges overlap so for a lighter cheaper rack you can get away with a rack of half or whole sizes, depending on the route obviously.

 

For really small sizes there are the new zero Friends or Aliens. I've only tried the Friends a couple of times, they're much better finished than the Aliens but the trigger bar is smaller and closer to the cams making them a bit harder to get out if deeply placed.

[buterFly]

I bought my first forged friend on a trip to Smith last year when I got there and realized I did not have enough big gear. the price was easier to swallow than for a BD of the same size. I liked it so much that I am going to use them for a second set for those long routes that require more than one set of cams.

[Farrgo]

butterFly, that is a great idea. I was trying to decide whether to get some forged friends or flex cams for a second cheaper set. the only thing that holds the f-friends back is that they can usually only be placed in vertical, clean cracks.

[willstrickland]

Not true at all masternate32!

 

You can place safely place forged friends in horizontals if you set them up properly. There are holes drilled in the stem above the trigger near the lobes (or there used to be anyway, I haven't seen one of recent vintage). Tie off the hole near the cam lobes with cordage and then use the cordage loop to clip into if the stem would be loaded over an edge.

 

In fact, if you met any east-coasters in the mid 80s to early 90's you probably saw all their friends tied off like that. The old rigid friends I have are still tied off like that.

 

EDITED: I'm late on the draw, Ade said basically the same thing above.

Edited May 9, 2004 by willstrickland

[Ade]

I liked it so much that I am going to use them for a second set for those long routes that require more than one set of cams.

 

Before you rush off and buy a second set of cams. You might want to consider the other options. It's pretty rare to need, or to have the energy to carry, more than one set of cams up a route. I guess the exception might be splitter cracks, but there you need lots of same size cams not full sets. Your partner probably has some cams too so now you have three sets - basically a substantial aid rack's worth.

 

You might consider getting some passive gear; nuts, hexes etc. They're cheaper, lighter and in some cases predictable when placed.

[buterFly]

Ade, i love passive gear. when given the choice, i will place a hex over a cam any day. i started working on a second set of cams on a recent trip to Moab and Indian creek when even after combining our racks we did not have enough cams to climb some of the longer crack. for alpine climbing, i seldom carry more than a few cams, but for nice long cracks i tend to want to double up a bit more.

[redneck_rocker]

"It's pretty rare to need, or to have the energy to carry, more than one set of cams up a route"

 

????????????????

 

I dont know wtf you are climbing at but on most routes I climb I find it very useful to have a double set of cams, unless you are wanting to run it out a lot. Also if you are having to build anchors the climb will be more gear intensive.

[buterFly]

a person can never own too much gear.

[Farrgo]

Go climb at index or indian creek and then say you rarely need two sets of cams. for crack climbs that are near my top ability i always carry two sets of cams for the crack range. forget the hexes unless 1) you are desperately short of pro for a pitch or 2) you can spend a little bit fiddling with the thing to get it into a good placement without worrying about a whipper.

[skyclimb]

On desert sandstone I will take forged friends over any other type of cam. They really bite well into the rock, and feel much more stable, on desert sandstone. I borrowed a few from a guy down on wallstreet, and ended up leading flakes of wrath witha mix of BD's and forged friends. By the end of the route i was reaching for the friends before the BD's.

At smith BD is king for me.

[shapp]

I have a set of tech friends and older rigid freinds. I find that the older rigid friends are excellent pieces especially for the larger 3 to 4 inch sizes. The seem way more stable than my comparable trango and metolious large size cams. I want to get a couple more 3.5 and 4 inch forged friends for those wide cracks. They are a great deal.

[jonthomp]

forget the hexes unless 1) you are desperately short of pro for a pitch or 2) you can spend a little bit fiddling with the thing to get it into a good placement without worrying about a whipper.

 

True you need some fiddling room to work with passive gear, but I disagree on leaving them at home. Nuts in many situations are easier to place (sometimes the only placement), are light, and offer very secure pro if placed correctly.

 

Now if you are just talking about hexes, sure leave them behind. There is plenty of better pro. Nuts, though, bring em'.

[jonthomp]

Before you rush off and buy a second set of cams. You might want to consider the other options.

 

Yeah, I married a woman who had her own set of flex cams to go with my rigid ones. Not the reason I married her, but a nice added bonus.

[Jens]

WC forged friend- Best cam available.

 

It would be even better if you could find someobody to tie those skinny little mammut slings (doubled) through the hole for two different clipping options. Is that a couple years off?

[catbirdseat]

forget the hexes unless 1) you are desperately short of pro for a pitch or 2) you can spend a little bit fiddling with the thing to get it into a good placement without worrying about a whipper.

 

True you need some fiddling room to work with passive gear, but I disagree on leaving them at home. Nuts in many situations are easier to place (sometimes the only placement), are light, and offer very secure pro if placed correctly.

 

Now if you are just talking about hexes, sure leave them behind. There is plenty of better pro. Nuts, though, bring em'.

Yesterday, I placed a hex, in the major camming mode, in a spot that would not have taken a nut. A cam would have worked, but would have been an inferior placement, and more likely to shift. That was the only placement for the last 20 ft of the route. I'll always take along a few medium hexes. They don't weigh much.

[thrutch]

Now a days I almost prefer a WC friend instead of a Camalot, though when I was starting out I liked the Camalots better as I found that placing it was more friendly. I use them both, but most of my larger cams now are forged friends as they are lighter hands down. I also love the WC spectra hexes, I once made fun of people who used them, but now they are my second set of cams. I greatly prefer the WC slung hexes over any other model.

[catbirdseat]

WC forged friend- Best cam available.

 

It would be even better if you could find someobody to tie those skinny little mammut slings (doubled) through the hole for two different clipping options. Is that a couple years off?

Does 5.5 mm spectra cord fit through those short holes in the stem for shallow horizontal placements? I've seen some pretty spindly looking cord used on Forged Friends.

 

Okay, I answered my own question. It's yes according to the Wildcountry Cam Book.

 

Beal Dyneema 5.5 mm Cord 17.7 kN

(3968 lbf) 20 g/m

(.70 oz/ft)

Edited May 14, 2004 by catbirdseat

[fern]

 

yes it does but I think Jens means the big hole in the end that has the factory-sewn sling. W/ those skinny mammuts you could possibly sling the Friends similar to the DMM or Trango cams which give you 2 possible sling lengths. I have idly wondered in the past about swaging a small but burly wire loop through the stem hole _and_ through a sewn sling to rig this sort of setup on Friends or Cramalots. But I am not such a fan of the double sling length feature that I want to try it on my own gear.

 

I like Friends, forged above 2.5, technical for the smaller sizes. But mine seem to get kinked and sticky springs and trigger wires more than any other of my cams. I don't like their colour scheme either - it clashes