fenderfour Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 I just wanted to ttake this opportunity to waste some of your time with a mindless rant. -Warning- if you want to feel like you spent this time well, stop reading now. [rant] I'm pretty damn tired of all of the super-safety conscious climbers out there. I'm not talking about the majority of climbers who perform doublechecks on gear and rigging, but the people that debate over which is the best knot to tie in with, how many 'biners one should link in with ... etc. please, figure it out. Yes, two biners are safer than one. One biner is 99.99% safe. two biners are 99.999% safe. Does it really matter? jeezus!!! I was climbing today, helping a friend learn to belay. Some random guy at the crag informed her that she should ALWAYS clip her biner and device through her rappel loop, not through her leg loop and waist loop. Ummm... excuse me, did I say shit to you? Did you even introduce yourself, say hi?? No. SO SHUT THE HELL UP. He went on to tell us that the rappel loop was the strongest part of the harness and that it would be the last thing to break. Yeah, but isn't that attached to the waist loop and the leg loop? Mind your own damn business. I have heard the arguement that rigging a biner through the waist loop and leg loop can lead to tri-axial loading. I don't think that there will be enough force on the biner on my harness to make it an issue. Especially when toproping. In closing. I would like all of you safety mongering shitheads to quit worrying about how many kN your carabiners can handle, to quit worrying about whether or not a tied sling can take as much force as a sewn sling and just get over it. If you buy gear from a reputable company and learn to use it properly then you will be ok. Got it? [/rant] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 It's really hard for some people to admit that they're wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 AMEN, Fenderfour! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 If I see someone belaying from their gear loop, I might say something. Otherwise, I mind my own business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlwind Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 i once had someone tell me not to clip two loops on my daisy cause if it breaks i'm screwed. given they are right but i was sitting on top of jellow tower at the time and each loop is 800 lb test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 i once had someone tell me not to clip two loops on my daisy cause if it breaks i'm screwed. given they are right but i was sitting on top of jellow tower at the time and each loop is 800 lb test If you shockload the daisy you will easily rip out the loops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Yeah but if there's a 180 degree twist in the daisy between two loops that the carabiner is connected through than the carabiner can't come out..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Very true. But it's easier to check that you've only clipped into one loops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 re-read rant at top of page I would say that knowing the ratings on your gear and what your body's weight puts on that gear keeps you from getting into the safety dance stuff you are talking about. You know what forces you will generate. You know what your gear can withstand. you choose what margin of safety you feel is appropriate, and use the gear that matches that margin. You go climbing and laugh at those loud-mouthed safety geeks who pass on the hearsay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 You've got a point FF, but there's a fine line between being an intrusive wanker and doing nothing amidst an accident waiting to happen at sometimes. I think the things that make the difference for me are: 1)The seriousness of the mistake/oversight that they are attempting to correct. Is this simply them trying to broadcast their preference as gospel "NEVER attach your nut tool directly to a carabiner!!!!!!!!!!!," or is there really a grievous/dangerous error that they are addressing. 2)Their motivation for making the correction. Is this a self-aggrandizing gesture to heighten their status amongst the gaggle of gumby-disciples that they are taking out for a day of TRing or is this someone who appears to be acting out of a sincere concern for the correctee's well-being. 3)The tone in which they deliver the correction. Courteous and self-effacing or condescending and overbearing. 4)Their competence. I've found that 1,2,3 and 4 are usually closely intertwined with one another. I've seen beligerent gumbies hustling over to admonish their fellow climber's for the most trivial deviations from UIAA standards in order to compensate for the fact that they can't climb worth a damn, and low-key old-schoolers amble over just in time to avert a potentially tragic technical mistake as gently and courteously as possible given the circumstances, but I've never seen combinations of the two occur. I'm sure it happens, but nine times out of ten this is how the correction/intervention ritual seems to go in practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 I love that song! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badvoodoo Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 i once had someone tell me not to clip two loops on my daisy cause if it breaks i'm screwed. given they are right but i was sitting on top of jellow tower at the time and each loop is 800 lb test Is this referring to clipping two loops next to each other? Or any two loops on the chain? I in my newbieness am not seeing how any two loops would be a bad thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlwind Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 i don't know how the fuck i would shock load the chain while sittin on top of jellow tower , also at a hanging belay it wouldn't get shock loaded less there was slack in it and the leader fell and pulled all his gear, thereby shockloading the anchor besides for hanging belays i don't just use the daisy( and actually i dont clip 2 loops with one beiner either) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlwind Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 i don't remeber but i dont think they were right next to each other, and it was probly twisted several times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 If you clip two loops with the same biner, you're screwed. You can clip two loops with separate biners, no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Some of you guys are completely missing the point of this thread by arguing technical points that have already been addressed in other threads. JayB had some good points. The tone of the interventionist and his sincerity can make all the difference. People don't want to be embarrassed in front of their friends. A sincere person who was truly concerned about someone's safety would walk over and say something in a low voice that no one else could hear. If the person being addressed declines to take the advice no one need be defensive because no one else knows what went on. Go back to what you are doing and forget about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gripped Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 i once had someone tell me not to clip two loops on my daisy cause if it breaks i'm screwed. given they are right but i was sitting on top of jellow tower at the time and each loop is 800 lb test Is this referring to clipping two loops next to each other? Or any two loops on the chain? I in my newbieness am not seeing how any two loops would be a bad thing... This is similar to the reason you put a twist in a sling when making a multi-directional anchor... If something breaks/tears, then the biner comes out of the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Some of you guys are completely missing the point of this thread by arguing technical points that have already been addressed in other threads. Bwhahhahhahha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gripped Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 I didn't mean to kill the thread. What was it you were saying about twists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 What!? Why aren't you supposed to clip your biner directly into your nut tool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Some of you guys are completely missing the point of this thread by arguing technical points that have already been addressed in other threads. and then... I didn't mean to kill the thread. What was it you were saying about twists? this stuff is slaying me! hahaha! I thought this thread was for your benefit from the get-go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 I know, personally, it has to be life-threatening before I'll say something. Case in point: I arrive at the belay on "Classic Crack" a few weeks ago to find the TR anchor a couple gumbies had set. In my view, it was unsatisfactory and unsafe (I wouldn't have climbed on it). I said something, my partner brought up some of their gear and reconfigured it. These guys learned something about anchors AND climbed safe that day. When I am led to address something, I always ask if I can provide some input or advice: "Could I make a suggestion?" or "I noticed you <blah, blah, blah>. Would you mind another opinion on that?" People are usually open to that. I also gauge the party to see if they ARE open to suggestion. If I don't think they are, I say nothing. Greg_W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlwind Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 fucking tools clip em or skip em.. who gives a fuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 I think you want the other thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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