jordop Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Thats where you're wrong. A fluke is almost never placed 90 degrees to the horizontal. The cable that is attatched to the fluke, is set up to continuously pull the fluke at approx. a 45 degree angle down and towards the load if the load is horizontal on a flat snow field, the fluke will pull at a 45 degree angle down and in the direction of pull. In the same way, on a vertical snow field it will pull down (into the snow) and at a 45 degree angle toward the direction of pull (towards the climber). The only thing different on a flat snowfield and a veritcal one, is gravity. The Fluke isn't affected by gravity, only the direction of pull is. The direction of pull will remain horizontal to the snow regardless of the steepness. Imagine it is like an Ice Screw. You don't compare it to the steepness of ice when placing it, only the angle relative the surface of the ice. On a 45* slope, 45* from slope is = 90* from horizontal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Thats where you're wrong. A fluke is almost never placed 90 degrees to the horizontal. The cable that is attatched to the fluke, is set up to continuously pull the fluke at approx. a 45 degree angle down and towards the load if the load is horizontal on a flat snow field, the fluke will pull at a 45 degree angle down and in the direction of pull. In the same way, on a vertical snow field it will pull down (into the snow) and at a 45 degree angle toward the direction of pull (towards the climber). The only thing different on a flat snowfield and a veritcal one, is gravity. The Fluke isn't affected by gravity, only the direction of pull is. The direction of pull will remain horizontal to the snow regardless of the steepness. Imagine it is like an Ice Screw. You don't compare it to the steepness of ice when placing it, only the angle relative the surface of the ice. On a 45* slope, 45* from slope is = 90* from horizontal True, but it's irrelevant. Or are you placing flukes in overhanging snow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crackman Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Never used one personally. However Texplorer and I came across one a few years ago on the upper Kautz that apparently had been used to rap down a "steeper" section of the glacier. Steeper is a relative term, since at 45-50 degrees one would not put much load on the anchor. Still, someone trusted it and it held since there were no accidents reported around that time. Probably hadn't been there that long and it was set pretty solid when we found it. Ended up booty in Tex's pack, don't know if he's ever used it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan_taylor Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 As flukes seem to be the topic in rave right now, I'd like to know when the last time you actually used a fluke. Not showing someone how to use it, or practicing, but actually used the damn thing As Pro on a climb In my 50 combined years of climbing experience I've never used one for real. I've never used my avalanche beacon for real either. Thank Shiva. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted February 16, 2004 Author Share Posted February 16, 2004 so, basically none of you have actually placed a fluke on lead, just a bunch of jimmer-jammering about the physics of them and shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 so, basically none of you have actually placed a fluke on lead, just a bunch of jimmer-jammering about the physics of them and shit. I've placed a fluke on second, does that count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted February 16, 2004 Author Share Posted February 16, 2004 why? i guess it counts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan_taylor Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 I placed on on lead on the north ridge of Baker a couple years ago to protect steep ground near the summit. And I've placed it on "lead" several other times for running belays on rope teams of three or more (clients) - especially on steep terrain that traverses, or any terrain that traverses over crevasses. I felt really good about the placements usually. Also, I think it can make a decent stove platform and base for a megamid pole too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted February 16, 2004 Author Share Posted February 16, 2004 I bet you felt Fat and Sassy placing those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Flukes and/or pickets might have been useful on the ramp pitch of Synchronicity this past weekend. Talk about rotten.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordop Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 I bet you felt Fat and Sassy placing those. Giant buckets make better deadmen. Especially if they are big enough to live in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted February 16, 2004 Author Share Posted February 16, 2004 I am a consumer whore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan_taylor Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 I use flukes as spoons for giant buckets of bean lard mulch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 I have an older BDEL shovel with a blade attachment that is pre-drilled for use as a fluke. I have never used it (or any other fluke) as pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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