RobBob Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Okay, I'm putting my environmental gadfly suit aside for a moment and asking you boobs a serious question: Anybody here familiar with small wind generators for home use? I'm looking at building a home on a site that has 5-15 kt. winds a lot of the time. Any of you got experience in installing or using wind generation? Any other construction advice for a windy waterfront site would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlwind Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 there is a awsome magize that could help ya also a webpage Homepower.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlwind Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 should look into solar panales as well the combo of the 2 u could probly sell energy to the powerplant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 sailboaters use the little windmills to recharge 12 volt systems. with an inverter you could get more i reckon. it all depends on what you want to power in your home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I have a friend in Montana who gets by with just a small wind turbine (maybe 3' propeller) and 4'x8' of solar panel. Makes me wish I'd gone that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I'm working on a site assessment now for placement of some commercial wind towers in Douglas Co. WA. They've made some great technological advances in these systems lately and now have a variety of sizes of systems. I don't have a reference to give you now but I can dig around. One think I would caution you on is that it would be worth having an assessment of your area by a wind engineer to make sure the winds are steady enough for you to invest the capital. Or I guess you could get a wind rose detail from some nearby weather station and then look at the specs of the turbine you're thinking about. Â Also - there is a case pending in the mid-west (I think) where a farmer put up a wind turbine and the utility is refusing to pay him on the avoided cost schedule, rather they want to just reduce his electricty cost on a kw/h basis. This could have some big implications in the small wind generation market. So you may want to check with your utility to see how they will pay you for your generation. This assumes you would tie into the grid and not just directly use your generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 Haven't yet checked our local utility to see if I can tie in and sell it back. I have seen articles about smaller turbine applications...some time ago I saw a pic of one at a climbers hut in Europe, but I don't recall which site it was on. I've got a little weather station, but have not tried to see if I could capture some history with it via a pc...that's probably worth doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 The Zbojnicka Chata (hut) in the Slovak Tatras is powered by wind turbine. It makes some pretty disturbing noises in heavy winds. Very eerie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msbehavin Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 my ass is powered by wind can you say DUTCH OVEN!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 The utility doen't have a choice. They have to buy from you, it's just what they will use to calculate your share. It will likely be an avoided generation cost, I think the problems arise in small, rural utilities, though that is where it makes the most sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 Jim's point is well taken that I need to do a site assessment, which I'll prob. have to do myself. I've got kind of a "micro climate" where a promontory on the water increases the wind dramatically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Also - there is a case pending in the mid-west (I think) where a farmer put up a wind turbine and the utility is refusing to pay him on the avoided cost schedule, rather they want to just reduce his electricty cost on a kw/h basis. This could have some big implications in the small wind generation market. So you may want to check with your utility to see how they will pay you for your generation. This assumes you would tie into the grid and not just directly use your generation. the 'utility' is a co-op. that has to be a factor in cash flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshimko Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 I have lots of friends in Haines AK who live off the grid. Most use solar panels, some use wind, one uses hydro (seasonally). All have storage batteries, and invertors for 110V. None attempt to sell back to the utility, but of course they are off the grid. The ones that seem to have energy to burn (mind you all are pretty carefull with their use of electricity) are the ones with wind generators and solar panels in a very clear area. These folks also do wood heat, collect water off the roof, some have propane delivered for kitchen stoves, fridges, water heaters. They live pretty comfortably. Â Unless you are going to wind in a big unit, and can sell back to utility, wind is really only practical in areas where there is no possibilty of connection to the utility. It's pretty expensive to set up and then there's maintenance. Â Let me know if you need recommendations on small units. I can't find the info just now, but have it somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 its too bad you dont have a stream cause you can get a lot more power with a pelton wheel than with a wind turbine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Solar is better if you have good exposure. Wind-generation requires maintenance, and if you are going to travel at all, there are systemic maintenance issues that are higher time-consumers than solar. Â Basically, you can't just shut the wind power down. A major consideration is maximum wind forces in your area.Especially in the winter, when they are strongest, and you are most likely to be away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Regarding powerplant sell-back? Most of the time alternative energy is chosen due to expense in hooking up common utilities, and sell-back becomes a non-issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted February 11, 2004 Author Share Posted February 11, 2004 Found the hut photo w/ the turbine...this one's in South Tyrol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlwind Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 ok sell back may not be an issue in most cases but if ur already on the grid and want to be more envio freindly so u switch to alternative energry u can also make a buck or two by selling it back, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick_Sharpless Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 RobBob: Â Contact these folks - Duke and Progress previously had a tariff for buying solar but not wind. Other than whatever the "green power program" will do, I don't think any of the utilities will (anymore) buy back anything other than solar power (though you can reduce what you buy down to 0). Although the initial deadline for small green power generator proposals passed, the NC green power folks claim that they have an "ongoing" program and really need wind and solar producers. Wind, esp if you want to tie to the grid while running your turbine, is not for the faint-hearted. There are some ongoing maintentance and monitoring issues. If you are on the coast, though, you might have enough consistent wind to get some sort of sensible payback. DK which util you are on but the link has a list of participating "green power" folks. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Wrong. Because of PURPA, they MUST buy back power from individual generators. I believe there is a threshold amount you must produce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 RobBob - Â Take a look at this site, it has some good resources, and some discussion of the net metering issue. Â http://www.irecusa.org/smallwindenergy/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted February 11, 2004 Author Share Posted February 11, 2004 thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick_Sharpless Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Jim: Â PURPA only requires payment at avoided cost - in NC that's (Now - as opposed to 1981) likely to be so low as to be a joke (most likely less than .01 / kwh compared with current consumer rates of .08-.09/kwh. PURPA looks like something on paper but has ZERO practical value for a wind producer, at least here (or in any state that has not adopted some unusual local interpretation of avoided cost, and FERC has pretty much shut that down). For the most part, only producers who jumped on the PURPA gravy train very early received contracts for enough to make money (and some made a lot - which is why PURPA may be repealed yet - it's good for established producers but bad for the ratepayers). Not to mention that a PURPA application by RobBob would result in the company proposing such a low rate as to be either not worth the time to do the work, or guarantee him a long fight in front of the Utilities Commission. I don't think there has been a non-cogen PURPA application here in years (a search found NONE since 1996). Lets see - to pay back a 30,000 wind turbine making 20000 excess kwh per year at even .02 / kwh - RobBob would get a check for $400 per year, for a return on investment of 1.3%/year. Except the turbine would cost more and the utility would pay less under PURPA. Hmm - not all business is good business. If the green power rate were .10/kwh the check would be 2000 /year, or 6.67%, which begins to make sense. Â NC does not have net metering in ANY form and even the site to which you referred acknowledges that. Â The NC Green power program is it, for now. If RobBob can get in on it it MAY pay well above market rates - depends on how other potential producers bid on wind and solar. It's not a bad program if it works. Â PURPA is now a joke for a new producer. It's bad joke for the ratepayers for those who jumped in on it early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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