Self-Belay, Old School Style

[mattp]

Lum-

My gibbs has no spring. It is not "spring loaded" the way I use that term. You are right that they have no handle on them and this is another reason why they have been largely abandoned in favor of something more like a jumar. So was there a general safety announcement somewhere about how they chop ropes? Aren't jumars and petzl ascender's also thought a poor device for shock loading (though maybe you can tell me they are a little better of an option).

[Dru]

since they aren't recommended for self belay they dont have to put out a safety announcement saying they are unsafe - except maybe in USA the land of the "my hot coffee scaleded me and it didnt say it was hot" lawsuits.

[Billygoat]

Thanks all!

 

And remember to play nice...

[lummox]

Aren't jumars and petzl ascender's also thought a poor device for shock loading

yeah. they suck. dont use em for belaying yourself or anybody else.

[chriss]

Thanks again Lummox for puttint things in perspective. I guess we know where everyone stands on the Gibbs. Though it was used in the old days as a self-belay devise, it was never designed for, nor tested for this use. And yes, it has been said a Gibbs will damage a rope at around 2000lbf. The Gibbs is said to have torn the sheath and slipped down the rope. Of note, 2000lbf is almost 9KN.

 

As I said before, DO NOT USE AN ASCENDER (Gibbs or any other)FOR SELF-BELAY, TR OR LEAD. There are modern tools better suited for this task.

 

chris

[arlen]

As I said before, DO NOT USE AN ASCENDER (Gibbs or any other)FOR SELF-BELAY, TR OR LEAD. There are modern tools better suited for this task.

 

[dylan_taylor]

Seems like if you're soloing on aid then there are bound to be some dubious placements. I never tie in short unless there is an obvious ledge and I have the ability to build an entirely new upward-pull anchor (with one downward-pull piece tensioned to it to hold it in the correct direction). I have no confidence that sketchy placements will hold one of my falls, and now I equalize most tiny placements to one another rather than clipping them each with independent draws. I also liberally clip screamers to dodgy fixed relics, micronuts, and anything else I suspect. I started changing my ways after my fat ass ripped some RP's in eldo a year ago (A girl had fallen on the same RP nest just before me and it held).

 

I've always aid soloed with the clove hitch but I took some little lobs recently while soloing with a grigri (non-modified) and it seems to work fine. The new Trango Cinch has some potential as a soloing device and toothless jumar (a la ushba).

[miller]

what up dylan?! where you be at?! PM me or send an email if you be in CO. the office has my info if you dont be havin it.

 

cheers, todd

[Dru]

As I said before, DO NOT USE AN ASCENDER (Gibbs or any other)FOR SELF-BELAY, TR OR LEAD. There are modern tools better suited for this task.

 

 

The Ushba ascender will sever the rope at approximately 5 KN. Do not use for lead self belay.

[TknJn]

On 1/30/2004 at 7:12 AM, Dru said:

if you read "A Soldier of the Great War" by Daniel Halperin, which is partly about WW1 alpine battles in the Dolomites, once you get past the anachronisms there is a great solo self belay setup described. /threadz/images/graemlins/thumbs_up.gif

Hi All, not having a go, was interested in Dru's reference & dug in. hard!

"A Soldier of the Great War" Mark Helperin.

summary

Self Belay Method: protection is a single piton* with a hemp hawser rope and a twice taped steel Karabiner to allow either a caught fall or rope recovery from above.  (surgical tape invented 1845)

Lifted from page 524 from the copy @ Archive.Org:

 

"Long before the war, Alessandro and Rafi had devised a system of self-belay for solo climbing. (txt del) The climber would climb unprotected until he felt in need of a belay.

He would then drive a pin into the rock and attach to it a specially rigged carabiner with two loops of tape stretching perpendicularly from the center of the gate to the closure, and to the shaft of the carabiner directly opposite. The rope would run between the loop of tape where it fastened to the shaft, and the point where the gate rested against the shaft.

Were the climber to fall, the rope would break the lower tape, set the carabiner in the proper position, and allow the gate to close. In the absence of a fall a sharp pull from above would break the same tape, move the rope past the gate, and position the second loop of tape on the eye of the piton so that one more pull would break it and free the carabiner.

The second tape would always be properly aligned because the climber's knapsack and ropes, hanging from the carabiner on a short runner, would provide resistance and righting force.

With the breaking of the second tape the gate would close and the climber could retrieve everything but the piton left in the rock. He was limited solely by the number of pitons he could carry, but he could climb only five meters from each belay, because a fall of more than ten meters would either pull out the piton, snap the rope, or break the climber's back."

 

* I deduce a single piton area of protection as a second area would redirect the fall onto the anchor in an upwards pull & put the proposed system into a 'release and recover rope' mode.

This Bit of the Story ~1914 to ~1918, so the bleeding edge of Climbing Technology and Innovation! fortunately; we have come along way.

whilst searching this out, I read some other climbing extracts from the book (1991) and thoroughly enjoyed them;

currently missing pulling on real rock & placing gear, looking forwards to slightly warmer weather.

Cheers!

jon

:-j