Billygoat Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 Most definitely! He failed Joe there. But he was pretty far gone himself so...I can't judge too harshly. What would you have done? Quote
chris_w Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 If I remember from the book, Simon had just enough rope to get down with it anchored so he couldn't retrieve his rope. It was basically a fixed single line When he got down Joe had already pulled on his rope and pulled it all into the crevasse. They didn't mention\show anything about simon getting down in the movie. That is what I am guessing you are asking the question from. Chris Quote
Figger_Eight Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 They did show Simon rapping down on a single line in the movie...so it must've been fixed. Quote
Billygoat Posted January 30, 2004 Author Posted January 30, 2004 AHH right. Well, should he have tried harder then? Kinda risky creepin' up to the edge of crevasses. As best as I could imagine, I think that I would be too wigged to do it and what could I do if I did locate him? I wonder why he got so much shit from the climbing "establishment" when they returned, like it siad during the credits? Quote
scrambled_legs Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 Dudes... if we can't come up with a clear answer while considering all the points of the story in the comfort of our living rooms... no wrong was done. He was wrecked!! I don't remember the specifics but I know that it was epic and he was wasted!!! Not to mention the emotional turmoil going through his head. He felt that there was no way that Simpson coulda lived. Who wants to see a dead friend???? I'd like to hear the climbing "establishments" take. According to our most popular movie review: the rational thing was to leave him as soon as he fell!!! Quote
griz Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 Kinda risky creepin' up to the edge of crevasses. As best as I could imagine, I think that I would be too wigged to do it and what could I do if I did locate him? Kind of strange response,BG. Yates could have done allot if he had gotten close to simpson's entry point and just made voice contact. Even if simpson couldn't get his end of the rope up to yates , yates could have decended to camp ,resupplied, told the guy in camp to dash for help/chopper and then returned to funnel food/water down to him til help came. If all the teams ropes were up high or in the crevasse then he could cut up a tent into strips and dropped it into the crevasse,simpson could attach the real rope and yates could then pull it up. Too wigged out,BG?...suck it up and save a life. I think yates did an amazing job,even cutting the rope but dropped the ball at the end by not checking the crevasse better or even just returning after recovering in camp. Quote
lummox Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 hmmm. blame is like a wiffle ball: easy to throw hard to aim and capable of stinging when it hits you. Quote
Rodchester Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 Should Simon Have Abseiled Into the Crevasse? I think he should have rappelled. Quote
jdog Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 Kinda risky creepin' up to the edge of crevasses. As best as I could imagine, I think that I would be too wigged to do it and what could I do if I did locate him? Kind of strange response,BG. Yates could have done allot if he had gotten close to simpson's entry point and just made voice contact. Even if simpson couldn't get his end of the rope up to yates , yates could have decended to camp ,resupplied, told the guy in camp to dash for help/chopper and then returned to funnel food/water down to him til help came. If all the teams ropes were up high or in the crevasse then he could cut up a tent into strips and dropped it into the crevasse,simpson could attach the real rope and yates could then pull it up. Too wigged out,BG?...suck it up and save a life. I think yates did an amazing job,even cutting the rope but dropped the ball at the end by not checking the crevasse better or even just returning after recovering in camp. you honestly think in his condition and state of mind that the best thing for simon to do was to go prancing around a huge crevasse by himself without the protection of a rope. i am sorry but without a rope this is asking for another person to die. what good does it do for both people to die. I will give you the coming back after recovering in camp, but only if they had the proper gear to do it. Quote
Rodchester Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 I find it interesting that MOST here seem to agree that Simon did the right thing in saving himself. However, MANY here (CC.com) criticize those in the 1996 Everest debacle (and other events) for leaving some behind to die. Differences? Just thinking out loud.... Quote
Dru Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 (edited) they're all wankers however it is an interesting speculation... how badly would TTV book have sucked if Krakauer had written it and not Simpson Edited January 30, 2004 by Dru Quote
lummox Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 how badly would TTV book have sucked if Krakauer had written it . . . for sure there would have been a lot of finger pointing. prolly would have been bourkereevs fault still. Quote
David_Parker Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 #1. Leave Thin Air out of this. Start a new thread if you want to re-hash that shit. #2. Simon did the right thing and more. The guy friggin sat there for hours with full body weight on him until his powdery seat deteriorated and he started sliding. Only then did he cut the rope. I'm sure by then he figured Joe was free hanging and he said he thought he was a dead man anyway and for sure thought that after he cut the rope. Why would he abseil when he already knew the rope didn't reach! Going to the lip to even look was suicide in the unconsolidated snow with NO anchor. If you look at the photo in the book, you can see the cliff and how Simon went to skiers right to bypass it. If he did really rap his remaining single line like in the movie, he probably knew in the daylite it was his last rap and din't need it after that. My question in the movie was: #1, why didn't they take Joe's crampon off on his broken leg so it wouldn't catch? Quote
forrest_m Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 IIRC, in the book he talks about having to use his bad leg too to scrabble upwards every time he had to unweight the rope and to make his stances. Quote
catbirdseat Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 Good question. I think they weren't thinking too well at that point. Quote
Billygoat Posted January 30, 2004 Author Posted January 30, 2004 Hey Griz, I know you mean well and hopefully we'll hook up one of these times I am in Colorado, but when I lived in Colorado, I used to discount crevasses as minor obstacles. When I moved out here to the PNW and really started to experience them, well, I am thoroughly impressed and have a healthy fear of them, to the core of my being. DID you see the one he fell into and how the hole was in the very MIDDLE of a roof! Simon would not have be able to get anywhere near the edge w/o a rope and an anchor. As far as rescue, I don't think that the Peruvian government, in the 1980's, was set up for the "Rescues" we all take for granted now that everyone is paying climbing fees. They were on their own. Shredding the tent and lowering it in one long strip to hoist up Joe's end of the rope is thinking outside the box tho...Maybe I will go climbing with you after all. BTW thanks for the Garden of the Gods Beta, we had a blast! Quote
Rainierwon Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 Werd. I've been around a lot of crevasses, and there is no way he should have abseiled or repelled into one like that in a whiteout . Quote
Rodchester Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 Peru isn't set up for rescues now, let alone in the 1980s. Quote
tomtom Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 The first rule of rescue is not to add oneself to the body count. Dying with your buddy is the romantic response, saving oneself may the pragmatic one. Quote
scrambled_legs Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 Who said get a chopper??? Simpson rode out on a ass after he made it back to camp. No chopper ride even then!!! I think they had to convince the locals to even provide them with this transportation if I remember right. Rodchester is bang on Quote
slothrop Posted January 30, 2004 Posted January 30, 2004 Maybe this was already covered in the book, but why didn't Simpson aid out of the crevasse on his tools and the one screw he had? I remember he tried climbing out, but the ice was overhanging and he was obviously in no shape for WI6 at that point. Quote
chelle Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 (edited) I've always wondered why they didn't splint Joe's leg with the sleeping pad earlier. And I think that Joe lowering further into the crevasse to see if there was a way out or to hasten his burial was brilliant. And how could he have aided out with only one screw and one good leg to stand on? And on overhanging ice? Edited January 31, 2004 by ehmmic Quote
griz Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 Heh,heh...yeah the chopper comment was me posting at 2AM. Too frickin' high for them anyway. I'll put the crack away...I promise. BG- Yeah,believe me I have a healthy respect for crevasses too. CO's 14ner's are fun to train on for the real mtns out there in the world,ya know? Everyone has there limits for risk- these guys just did a rte that wasn't repeated for...what?..15years? Yates passed the spot in the early AM after a damn cold night so that snowbridge is going to be about as strong as its going to get. Laying flat out and probing just to get close enough to get a good yell out seems like a reasonable risk to me considering there is a possible life in the balance. Everyone can disagree with that...fine by me. I completely understand your thinking. However...If it is you in that crevasse then who would you want on the other end? That's the way I look at it and I feel you owe that person the risk to your own life. Also, keep in mind he hit that bridge from 80ft up and he said it almost held him but didn't. Glad to hear you had fun in CO,BG. Nice change to hang out in the sun,eh? Quote
slothrop Posted January 31, 2004 Posted January 31, 2004 One screw and two ice tools. You could do this: place screw, stand on it. Pound in both tools, equalize, do a pullup until you can haul the good leg into the sling attached to the tools. Clean screw, repeat for 80 feet. Easier said than done, but less scary than lowering oneself into that crevasse. That part gave me the willies. Quote
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