Cordelette fever

[lancegranite]

Here is a method to use a cordelette to protect a multi pitch rappel.

Leg 2 is the ATC leg.

Leg 1 is the ATC back up.

Leg 3 is the prussik backup.

Has anybody ever used this system?

Edited December 20, 2003 by lancegranite

[Wallstein]

I have used something very similar. I have never used the third leg as prussik backup though. Exactly what hitch would you be using? I don't see how you could actually use a prussik hitch on leg three. Maybe a bauchman. It also seems important to point out the fact that if leg 3 is to long it could possibly be pulled into the rappel device, and fail to do its job

I will have to try this next time I am out.

[lancegranite]

Exactly!

Correct on both points.

Depending how you tie the cordelette, you will have legs of different lengths. Use the differences in length to your advantage.

I use the longest leg for the Bachman, as the wraps usually take up the slack.

The Primary leg (ATC) is the middle length.

The Backup leg is the shortest, because you chain the backup biner into the ATC's biner.

I call it a back up but really it is your first and last connection to the belay.

This setup works great for climbs that have some what straightforward bolted belays. ( I tend to think of Prince of Darkness or Moonlight Buttress) Climbs where you do not have to adjust the lengths all the time.

[goatboy]

I want to be the first to admit that I'm a total gearhead techno weenie geek, but I love this thread! This is the coolest techno trick I've seen in a LONG time!

 

Thanks for sharing it. I love it when someone looks at something we all do all the time and envision it a different, innovative (though ultimately simple) way.

 

Thanks!

 

Steve

[Dru]

wont using one leg for a bachman weaken the cordellete due to the friction? i rarely use my backup prussik sling for any other use. also my cordellete is spectra and i clip in to the anchor with a daisy. but the system described would work if you didnt take a daisy and used a 6mm or 7mm cordelette, i guess.

[arlen]

Looks like a smooth technique, but what particular problem does it solve?

[texplorer]

A) Why do you need the belay device above your head?

B) Isn't this just a simple case of tying into 2 anchor points at each belay.

C) I never want to be force to hang from my "3rd leg" if you know what I mean.

[ken4ord]

That is sweet little trick, I like it. I think where this system will really shines is on long multi-pitch rappels that have two bolt rappel anchors. One thing to look out for though is on free hanging raps. In the past I have used a sling girth hitched to my harness and have my rappel device attached to it and free locker. Usually I will rap to the anchor and as I am going by it clip into a single bolt and continue rapping until the bolt is weighted (obviously the clipping into a single bolt is dependent on the situation and the quality of the anchor). What is nice about having an extension from your harness is having both hands on the brake end (=more braking control). The down side is if you need to climb the rope it is difficult and if you are free hanging it is next to impossible with out changing the system around, (try it, it is really hard). Another thing to look out for is if you have long hair, your device is going to be about eye level making it easier to get your hair trapped in your device as you are rapping.

 

Dru, I am trying to figure out where the friction on the cordelette is going to come from in this set up? It is no different than having a three point cordelette anchor that you are clipped to directly into, right.

[Dru]

as far as i can tell from the picture you use one leg of the cordelette as a prussik/autoblock/bachman while descending. now i have seen how prussik loops can get worn/frayed from heavy use and my own opinion is that i'd rather not have that happen to my cordelette...

[ketch]

K4 I think the friction would come in the Bachman, the turns that you take cause the fibres in the cordolette to be across the fibres in the rope. That gives real good bite if you need it but, if your knot is a little tight the action of raping could wear on the cordolette.

If need be I would rather retire a cordolette than a rope but i would probabley use a differant technique if the rap was sketchy and I was going to ride my back up anyway

[ken4ord]

as far as i can tell from the picture you use one leg of the cordelette as a prussik/autoblock/bachman while descending. now i have seen how prussik loops can get worn/frayed from heavy use and my own opinion is that i'd rather not have that happen to my cordelette...

 

Ok yep, I see it now, I was being dumb. I guess for me I wouldn't bother with the auto lock since I would have both hands on the brake end.

[Matt_Anderson]

I believe in rappell systems that take less time to set up than it takes to actually descend the pitch.

 

bpththtppth!

[gnibmilc]

I believe in rappell systems that take less time to set up than it takes to actually descend the pitch.

 

bpththtppth!

 

I second that! Techno geek stuff is really neat to look at late at night when working too late. But otherwise even the wise cannukian with the daisy sounds better than trying to not get your pecker caught in that un-tethered bacchanalian debauchery.

[lancegranite]

.

How easy is it to hang on rappel and sort out the anchor?

With a system like this, I get to the next lower anchor,

clip, clip- off rappel!

What makes this even faster is to leave a second biner on the leg with the ATC now you have three choices for lengths when you reach the lower station.

I think it's pretty simple when you think about it... you aready have to build anchors,you never unclip from this until I hit the dirt.

Look, I rap the regular way too, this is just a variation.

Edited December 23, 2003 by lancegranite

[gnibmilc]

I'm just too stupid to remember so much stuff. the last thing i want to think about is if i got the knot right. i'm just barely able to remember the important knots that the mountaineers taught me.

[Billygoat]

Why do you freaks put the Prussic back-up below the rappel device?! Seems baked

[lancegranite]

As a stoner and the original poster, I'll field this one...

 

The Prussik grabs the brake end of the rope, locking the ATC, stopping you.

Just like your brake hand, right?

The length of the prussik is critical, as you do not want it to get sucked into the device.

[Dru]

ever try passing a knot with the prussik below the device?

[snoboy]

BG - it really is better, try it sometime. The biggest advantage is when you actually lock up the backup knot, it is way easier to get it unlocked and continue with you rappel.

[lancegranite]

Good point Dru,

I guess you can tie another prussik above the knot, slowly weight the system, then tie a Alpine butterfly below the knot as a backup, clip into that with your regular back up, finally with two backups, switch the device, installing it above the butterfly so you can untie it.

At work we use our jumars in place of the prussiks to pass knots.

 

It's hard to have much redundancy with only one rope.

[Billygoat]

In my view, Prussic above has many advantages and no worries. I use a Klemheist instead of an actual Prussic: It will hold well and not slip and potentially burn thru like a French Prussic, yet still loosen after loading unlike a regular Prussic. I use a Petzl quick-draw with lockers to attach it to my belay loop which keeps it safe and far enuf above the rappel device, yet not so far that it will escape my grasp if I slip. It is also where my upper hand wants to ride. I carry another Prussic loop and a Texas Kick rig in case I have to go back up or unload.

 

Not sure how you would use a Jumar on a double rope rappel. Petzl Shunt maybe...

[lancegranite]

I can barely spell prussik, so I dont say klemheist.

 

The situation Dr. Dru suggested was passing a knot that connects two single ropes, or passing a intermedate anchor.

[dylan_taylor]

This idea seems pretty cool, the only thing I wonder about, is this: How do you manage the clusterf%&k at each station when you are rapping with a partner, or say, with two partners? I'm sure you probably have something figured out that works well, but I know that one hassel I am always trying to deal with is making transitions at each station easy to deal with when there is more than one person to rappel.

There is one thing I have done in the past when rapping long routes with bolted anchors. Premake a cordattle or double length sling into two legs and a powerpoint, same as if you were building an anchor on lead. Make two of these. The first person down takes the rig, and clips it into the bolts. Since most bolts are placed on an almost horizontal plane, your powerpoint is equalized almost instantly. Then, you can clip in with the sling that is girthed to your harness, the way most of us do - but you are clipping into two bolts, not one, and there is room for your partners to clip as well. Once the ropes are pulled and re-rigged, there is no order that you are forced to rappel in. Since everyone is clipped to the anchor the same way, anyone can rap first.

 

Re: prussik above or below belay device: I don't know anyone who puts the prussik below, but I know plenty of people who put an autobloc below! It is easy, super fast, and it is not nearly as much of a pain to undo as having a prussik above your device.