Alpental conditions 11-22-03

[EWolfe]

Yeah, a few 3/8" X 3" bolts are such a huge impact next to this ( an example):

 

 

[pope]

MisterE said:

Yeah, a few 3/8" X 3" bolts are such a huge impact next to this ( an example):

 

 

 

An asshole is an asshole, no matter how small, no matter how large. Mister E, I'm personally embarassed for you. You call as your friend a guy who leaves a trail of trash in the mountains. These bolts are evidence of a cowardly ascent, nothing more, nothing less. Instead of advising him to minimize his impact and just top-rope his 40-ft project, you attempt to justify his actions by pointing out another, larger intrusion on the mountain landscape. "Shouldn't we worry about something else? Don't my buddy's transgressions pale in comparison to these chairlifts?" To your questions I would answer with a set of new questions: "Shouldn't we be concerned about both transgressions? Shouldn't a mountain climber hold himself to a higher ethical standard than a developer/profiteer?"

 

A bigger evil on the right does not excuse a smaller evil on the left. Please, gentlemen, put on your thinking caps before you enter these discussions.

[pope]

Szyjakowski said:

chriminey pope. why do you really care if they bolt these little roadside chosspiles... they're in the mountains you say but really if being in the mts entitles being so close to road for you....i am sorry for you. like rat said

go climb somewhere else. sacrificing these zones for such puny contrivant climbs does not hinder you in any one way so stfu.

 

I am embarassed to call myself a climber when the public associates a once noble tradition with this brand of horseshit.

[layton]

I'm generally embarassed to call myself a climber.

[Dru]

In Britain they are crusading against top roping because excess top roping destroys routes.

[Charlie]

Yeah, shut up Pope, or this little grandpa's gonna kick your ass

[pope]

mattp said:

Pope thinks he has to take every possible opportunity to get on his soap box and cry "HEY EVERYBODY - LOOK AT ME." A discussion of whether bolted mixed routes are a good or bad phenomenon or where and when they may be OK would be fine but he takes over a thread that was not about stylistic or environmental issues and spews the same old diatribe ... and then he tries to tell us what a hero he is because he is standing up for what's right in the world and kids these days would have no access to Pope's truth if he wasn't here to save us...

 

Pope says: This is an incredibly juvenile statement, even for you Mr. MattP. Obviously lacking anything substantial to contribute, and keeping in form with Erik, Cracked, Glasgow, et al. (nice company you keep there), you decide to attack me. "HEY...LOOK AT ME" is your suggestion that I'm looking for attention instead of expressing an honest opinion. And then you suggest that I'm making myself out to be a hero, the last guy standing up for what's right in the world, when in fact I was simply answering Rat's advice that we should "let Rome burn". Perkins, I expect better of you.

 

Please return control over this discussion to climbers who want to go climbing. If anyone wants to start a thread about the morality of bolting mixed climes, start one. But Pope has played his hand way too many times. How 'bout you limit yourself to like one a month or one every two months, Pope? Otherwise, it's just plain obnoxious.

 

Pope says: Or how about this: the moderators might wish for once to do their jobs and edit/clean up the insulting and threatening language that pervades responses made by at least one contributor to this thread. Instead, you edit (and even ban) contributions from those who disagree with your viewpoints. LAME! And I kow that this is exactly what you're doing when you suggest that I voluntarily limit my anti-bolt comments to once a month. Next you'll publicly announce that maybe Pope needs to be banned since he can't control himself. In the mean time, guys like Glasgow will go on inviting me to come to Bellingham and find out who the real man is....and the moderators here will do nothing about it. LAME!

 

You accused me of hi-jacking the conversation, of turning this into another anti-bolt "rant". Think about it. Who is using all of the insulting language? Who is making threats? Who is emotionally ranting about this issue? Not I...not even close. Also, posting one comment about questioning the appropriateness of bolting these top-rope climbs does not constitute "hi-jacking" a thread. You will notice that many, many people are interested in voicing opinions and it is not all one sided. We have several contributors from both perspectives. And what, Mr. MattP, is your problem with that? Is it only that perspectives contained in this thread don't agree with your own? What's the trouble? If you're really annoyed, you could choose to pass. Instead, you have to add your opinion (all the while hiding behind that corny, annoying St. Nicholas image...ho ho ho) the sum total of which is an insult to me. LAME^2![

 

As much as we all know that Glasgowkiss is the devil, I agree with the sentiment here (and I even agree with some of what Pope has to to say!).

 

Pope says: I don't need you to agree with me. I wish for once you'd just ignore me.

[pope]

Charlie said:

Yeah, shut up Pope, or this little grandpa's gonna kick your ass

 

Forget the grandpa...who's the bird? Yowsa!

[Charlie]

[glassgowkiss]

pope, take a chill pill, don't you have anything else to do. everyone leaves trail, even you.

couple of facts:

1. you want to tr these routes. as far as access from above, it's not that easy as far as i know. so you'll have to thrash through some stuff with your crampons, so how is this no impact in your mind. oh wait, you actually don't ice/mix climb, the only time you wear crampons is on flat glacier, so how would you know.

2. you are arguing about estetics, nothing more nothing less. ROCK DOESN'T ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELLY CARE IF THERE ARE BOLTS OR NOT. like original bolts on the nose turned into rusted crap and eventually they some of them fell off, these will too in 25 or 50 years and in 100 there won't be a fucking trace, so why so worry about it.

3. people bolted for decades now. so with the same energy and vengance why don't you start your bitching about routes like liberty crack, thin red line, the nose (fuck pretty much every route in yosemite). oh fuck, even alska. such a pair of weak sport climbers like jack tackle and donini did place a few of them on cobra pillar. so why don't you complain about that too?

4. climbing with crampons and ice tools on thin ice or rock scratches it, hence it leaves a "trace" for the next person. so why don't you start complaining about that?

5. if your brain can't figure it out people were trying also point out the fact, that on a scale of things bolts are a minor issue. compared to acress of artificial lakes, clearcutts, forest road construction, acid rain, 40% of population without health insurance and many many others a few pieces of metal on a chossy snowed up rock are a very minor issue.

so there, go drink a beer, go climb something, go ride a bike or whatever you decide to do, go do it and enjoy. stop fucking bugging people, we all know how you feel. if you don't like what's going on near alpentall- don't fucking go there, go somewhere else. there is plenty of mountains around. and if this pisses you off so much quit climbing and do something else. i like climbing and i don't give a ratts fuck what you or other people think about styles, ethics and other bullshit. i will use any style that i see fit and i will enjoy every fucking second of it. so there, now go and punch your clown- r

[cracked]

pope said:

mattp said:

Pope thinks he has to take every possible opportunity to get on his soap box and cry "HEY EVERYBODY - LOOK AT ME." A discussion of whether bolted mixed routes are a good or bad phenomenon or where and when they may be OK would be fine but he takes over a thread that was not about stylistic or environmental issues and spews the same old diatribe ... and then he tries to tell us what a hero he is because he is standing up for what's right in the world and kids these days would have no access to Pope's truth if he wasn't here to save us...

 

Pope says: This is an incredibly juvenile statement, even for you Mr. MattP. Obviously lacking anything substantial to contribute, and keeping in form with Erik, Cracked, Glasgow, et al. (nice company you keep there), you decide to attack me. "HEY...LOOK AT ME" is your suggestion that I'm looking for attention instead of expressing an honest opinion. And then you suggest that I'm making myself out to be a hero, the last guy standing up for what's right in the world, when in fact I was simply answering Rat's advice that we should "let Rome burn". Perkins, I expect better of you.

 

Please return control over this discussion to climbers who want to go climbing. If anyone wants to start a thread about the morality of bolting mixed climes, start one. But Pope has played his hand way too many times. How 'bout you limit yourself to like one a month or one every two months, Pope? Otherwise, it's just plain obnoxious.

 

Pope says: Or how about this: the moderators might wish for once to do their jobs and edit/clean up the insulting and threatening language that pervades responses made by at least one contributor to this thread. Instead, you edit (and even ban) contributions from those who disagree with your viewpoints. LAME! And I kow that this is exactly what you're doing when you suggest that I voluntarily limit my anti-bolt comments to once a month. Next you'll publicly announce that maybe Pope needs to be banned since he can't control himself. In the mean time, guys like Glasgow will go on inviting me to come to Bellingham and find out who the real man is....and the moderators here will do nothing about it. LAME!

 

You accused me of hi-jacking the conversation, of turning this into another anti-bolt "rant". Think about it. Who is using all of the insulting language? Who is making threats? Who is emotionally ranting about this issue? Not I...not even close. Also, posting one comment about questioning the appropriateness of bolting these top-rope climbs does not constitute "hi-jacking" a thread. You will notice that many, many people are interested in voicing opinions and it is not all one sided. We have several contributors from both perspectives. And what, Mr. MattP, is your problem with that? Is it only that perspectives contained in this thread don't agree with your own? What's the trouble? If you're really annoyed, you could choose to pass. Instead, you have to add your opinion (all the while hiding behind that corny, annoying St. Nicholas image...ho ho ho) the sum total of which is an insult to me. LAME^2![

 

As much as we all know that Glasgowkiss is the devil, I agree with the sentiment here (and I even agree with some of what Pope has to to say!).

 

Pope says: I don't need you to agree with me. I wish for once you'd just ignore me.

Poor Pope...nobody agrees with him even though he's right! Mommy! Glasgowkiss is calling me names! And mattp isn't being nice either!!!! WAAAHHHHH!

[pope]

Charlie said:

 

Oooooh weeeee!

[Charlie]

Poor Pope...nobody agrees with him even though he's right! Mommy! Glasgowkiss is calling me names! And mattp isn't being nice either!!!! WAAAHHHHH!

Stay out of this junior. I know Pope, and I'm posotive he's 100,000 times cooler than you. Dork.

[Charlie]

 

Bolts? Huh? What were we talking about, again?

[pope]

glassgowkiss said:

pope, take a chill pill, don't you have anything else to do. everyone leaves trail, even you.

couple of facts:

1. you want to tr these routes. as far as access from above, it's not that easy as far as i know. so you'll have to thrash through some stuff with your crampons, so how is this no impact in your mind. oh wait, you actually don't ice/mix climb, the only time you wear crampons is on flat glacier, so how would you know.

 

What do you know about what I've climbed? The most memorable pitch I've ever climbed was mixed and 5.10, and I can promise you that I didn't bolt it or inspect it on rap. I climbed it with the gear that was available on the lead because getting off of the route made it mandatory. You don't know who you're talking to.

2. you are arguing about estetics, nothing more nothing less. ROCK DOESN'T ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELLY CARE IF THERE ARE BOLTS OR NOT. like original bolts on the nose turned into rusted crap and eventually they some of them fell off, these will too in 25 or 50 years and in 100 there won't be a fucking trace, so why so worry about it.

3. people bolted for decades now. so with the same energy and vengance why don't you start your bitching about routes like liberty crack, thin red line, the nose (fuck pretty much every route in yosemite). oh fuck, even alska. such a pair of weak sport climbers like jack tackle and donini did place a few of them on cobra pillar. so why don't you complain about that too?

4. climbing with crampons and ice tools on thin ice or rock scratches it, hence it leaves a "trace" for the next person. so why don't you start complaining about that?

5. if your brain can't figure it out people were trying also point out the fact, that on a scale of things bolts are a minor issue. compared to acress of artificial lakes, clearcutts, forest road construction, acid rain, 40% of population without health insurance and many many others a few pieces of metal on a chossy snowed up rock are a very minor issue.

 

It's only a "very minor issue" in the minds of those who find it acceptable. Shame on you.

 

so there, go drink a beer, go climb something, go ride a bike or whatever you decide to do, go do it and enjoy. stop fucking bugging people, we all know how you feel. if you don't like what's going on near alpentall- don't fucking go there, go somewhere else.

 

This is precisely why I won't shut up. Why should I have to go some place else? Every time I hike up to the Tooth I'm going to be confronted with this. Why should I be displaced? Why can't the guys who are pretending to lead this rock just admit that the pro isn't there and top-rope the 40-ft pile?

 

 

there is plenty of mountains around. and if this pisses you off so much quit climbing and do something else. i like climbing and i don't give a ratts fuck what you or other people think about styles, ethics and other bullshit. i will use any style that i see fit and i will enjoy every fucking second of it. so there, now go and punch your clown- r

[pope]

Charlie said:

 

Bolts? Huh? What were we talking about, again?

 

Hey! Turn down the high beams!

[cracked]

Charlie said:

Poor Pope...nobody agrees with him even though he's right! Mommy! Glasgowkiss is calling me names! And mattp isn't being nice either!!!! WAAAHHHHH!

Stay out of this junior. I know Pope, and I'm posotive he's 100,000 times cooler than you. Dork.

It's hard to respond to this, it's so stupid. What a convincing argument.

[glassgowkiss]

Charlie said:

 

Bolts? Huh? What were we talking about, again?

now we are talking

bolts, no bolts, but she's got nice mamelion protruberances

[pope]

[Charlie]

I would assume you'd post a picture with some witty phrase on it, as usual.

[pope]

Hey Gang! Who wants to join me at the Rap Wall?

 

[Charlie]

I went to Rick's in Lake City on Friday night. Should I post a TR?

[cwacked]

Pope, I assume you would consider the visible streak blanched of lichen from repeated use on the West Face of NEWS to be a far worse crime than a few tiny bolts?

[pope]

Charlie said:

I went to Rick's in Lake City on Friday night. Should I post a TR?

 

Do fish swim?

[glassgowkiss]

whatever i am out.

pope said

What do you know about what I've climbed? The most memorable pitch I've ever climbed was mixed and 5.10, and I can promise you that I didn't bolt it or inspect it on rap. I climbed it with the gear that was available on the lead because getting off of the route made it mandatory. You don't know who you're talking to.

a psycho ass puke biatch??