ISREAL IS THE BIGGEST THREAT TO WORLD WIDE PEACE

[Dru]

Zion is the place for the children of Jah

Holy Mount Zion

[j_b]

sisu' s post makes it clear that it is about land, they just happen to have different religions which complicates matters.

[Jim]

Simple, but not a bad quick history. Be prepared for PP to post the propaganda from some Zionist web site to counter some of this.

 

My simplistic solution: Pull all our $3 billion a year aid until Israel dismantles all settlements and pulls back to the green line. Confirm to UN resolutions 194 and 242. Then help build a functional Palestinian state and defend Israel from the wackos. Please, no revisionist responses of 194 and 242.

[RobBob]

$12 billion in total isn't it? Darn, Jim, good post.

[nolanr]

I think if I was living in Israel, I wouldn't have any faith that any kind of cease fire, dismantling of settlements, pulling back, or any other kind of concession would make a damn bit of difference in the long run. Hasn't all of that been done before? Did it stop Palestinian terrorist attacks against Israel? I don't think so. If the right of Israel to exist as a nation is called into question, you have to look at Palestine the same way. As far as I know, there has never been a Palestinian nation. I'm sure I know far less about the situation over there than some of the other posters, but I've got general impressions that I've grown up with, there's been violence over there as long as I can remember. I'm not naive enough to think Israel is without blame and always takes the high road, but I just think it's laughable when people talk about peace in the Middle East and actually believe that a group of nations that are dominated by Islam religiously, culturally, and politically are going to legitimately strive to have peaceful relations with a nation such as Israel that is so radically different religiously, culturally, and politically. Over here in the good 'ol US of A we like to bash on conservative Christian right wingers as being ignorant, intolerant and hateful, but I don't think they have anything on Islam in terms of being completely intolerant of anything different.

[cracked]

[Scott_J]

cracked said:

Ditto to Nolar

[Jake]

Here are some more thoughts.

 

1. When Jews starting moving into Palestine in the 1920s etc, they made offers to buy the land. The guys who owned the land were often rich Arabs from cities who didn't live on the land. However, the poor Arabs that farmed the land did live there. So when the land owners accepted the offer to sell their land, they did so in hopes of only making money and didn't care what happened to to the farmers. And after the Jews bought the land, they intended to farm it themselves, so they booted the farmers out. So, the farmers got mad at the Jews for kicking them off the land.

 

2. Generally, it seems that Arabs have a history of not reading the international political situation well. (Remember how Saddam was too stupid to cut a deal with the US, refusing to believe that we would actually invade) Instead of totally opposing a Jewish state and refusing even to talk about it during the debate on its formation, they effectively dug themselves a hole. Instead of working out a deal that could have preserved much of their land, they totally opposed it and got cut out because they were the weaker force which could be ignored. Bad choice.

 

3. If the Israelis are ever going to make any progress in this thing, they have to get rid of all of the settlement, which are all over the West Bank. Saying we will start to take some down and not really doing much is never gonna work. Unfortunately, many Israelis and settlers don't

want to leave. This creates a difficult political situation for Israeli leaders. And Sharon, just on the basis of his own views, is never going to get rid of the settlements. Also, the Israelis need to get out of all of the Palestinian towns with all of their roadblocks and searches etc. These roadblocks etc are security measures, but they often just make Palestinians mad.

 

4. Arafat is nothing more than a terrorist. He does not want peace - he wants to get rid of Israel (what conference was that that Israel gave him everything they - Israel - could ever possibly give and Arafat turned em down cause he wanted the right of return?). So, Israel's refusal to deal with Arafat has been good because it has forced the Palestinians to create a Prime Minister job. Unfortunately, the first PM recently quit because Arafat was impossible to work with in terms of constructively solving issues.

 

5. Palestinians need to quit living in the past and recognize the current situation. They will never get the "right of return" simply because allowing millions of angry Palestinians into Israel to live would destroy the country. It would no longer be Israel as all of the Palestinians would be in control. Israel would cease to exist.

 

6. Yes, I think the US should quit giving money away to Israel. It hurts our image with the Arabs and Israel can and should support itself anyway. However, cutting off funding may make it difficult for us to work with the Israelis. But, maybe threatening to cut off the money could force them to act better. At any rate, though, the Jewish lobby is very strong in this country and it wants the US to continue to keep paying Israel - so the odds of funding cuts aren't that good.

You could go on forever on this stuff, but these are just some basic thoughts.