rbw1966 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Torqued my shoulder something awful when I took a digger on the approach to Torment a few weeks ago. Felt like I dislocated the bastard. Went to the doc and he did an x-ray, prescribed Bextra and Vicodin (party on, Wayne!). X-ray report showed "bony abnormalities consistent with prior dislocation." Funny, I don't remember dislocating my shoulder--ever. I've had previous problems with this shoulder--throwing motion (as in tossing a ball for my dog) hurt like a bitch. PT helped and pain eventually went away. It was surmised at the time that I had bursitis. I took the Bextra for about two weeks and stopped the Vics as they were making me depressed. Shoulder still hurts--same pain as before (throwing motion) and shoulder feels weak. Mantling hurts as does a chicken-wing motion. What I want to know is this: is there some definitive exercise regimen I can do to rehabilitate this shoulder and prevent this type of pain and injury from occuring again? Any advice is much appreciated. I sit on my ass all day in an office, bike and run but do little for upper-body conditioning. Would weights and a bench help? Gracias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisT Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I feel your pain man. I've had persistant shoulder pain for a couple of months now which was recently exacerbated when I cracked up on my bike last Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrashador Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Therabands. I severely dislocated my right shoulder two years ago and they are what the good rehab folks gave me. After a while I stopped attaching them to doorknobs and stuff and just played tug-o-war with my pooch. The whole program worked like a charm for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.radon Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Sorry to hear about your shoulder problems. I had mine operated on almost exactly a year ago. I wish I had done it years earlier. If the pain persists demand to have an MRI. Check out my posts on the topic last October. I found a lot of information on the web. My doctor gave me PT and pain killers which ended up giving me more pain, esp at night. I had a tron Labrum and a compressed joint. The more PT the more pain I got. If the pain doesn't go away, go see a specialist and get the darn thing looked at proper like. My shoulder strength is now about 130% from where I was before the operation. I have NO pain and a huge increase in my range of motion, no ouch spots like before. Good luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I agree with the band's for PT but, long term, you should consider some upper body conditioning and weight lifting is an excellent way to accomplish that, obviously. Sounds like you might've injured your rotator cuff a little, those can take a long time to heal, from my experience and I'd avoid throwing until you can do it without pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 Hey thrash--any reason why I should use therabands rather than just bungy cords? If I did that with my dog he'd rip my friggin arm off. He's small (red heeler) but packs a big punch. I really want to avoid surgery at all costs. I think I'll give the bands and the weights a chance and see what happens from there. Thanks for all the beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLC Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I don't know who to see in Portland, but the UW Elbow and Shoulder Clinic is top-notch. I had consistent shoulder pain pretty much all my life, which had become exaserbated by my job (sitting at a computer for 15 hours a day), and had been told all sorts of stuff from various doctors. Some said that I had lots of minor dislocations, others said I probably hurt my rotator cuff, etc. When I went to the UW, they got to the root of the problem: cervical ribs (I have two more ribs than normal people) and thoracic outlet syndrom (my extra ribs compress the nerves and flow of blood to my arms). In lieu of surgery, I opted to start lifting weights. So long as I lift every day, the pain doesn't come back. If I don't lift for 3 days in a row, it'll be as bad as ever. Anyway - see a shoulder specialist and start lifting weights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 mr.radon said: Sorry to hear about your shoulder problems. I had mine operated on almost exactly a year ago. I wish I had done it years earlier. If the pain persists demand to have an MRI. Check out my posts on the topic last October. I found a lot of information on the web. My doctor gave me PT and pain killers which ended up giving me more pain, esp at night. I had a tron Labrum and a compressed joint. The more PT the more pain I got. If the pain doesn't go away, go see a specialist and get the darn thing looked at proper like. My shoulder strength is now about 130% from where I was before the operation. I have NO pain and a huge increase in my range of motion, no ouch spots like before. Good luck with it. ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto!!!! have a specialist check it out! i was in a constant cycle of rehab/pain with my shoulder resulting from prior dislocations. had surgery 6 mos ago. no more pain, much more range of motion and most of my strength is back. not quite there but improving all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrashador Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 rbw1966 said: Hey thrash--any reason why I should use therabands rather than just bungy cords? If I did that with my dog he'd rip my friggin arm off. He's small (red heeler) but packs a big punch. I really want to avoid surgery at all costs. I think I'll give the bands and the weights a chance and see what happens from there. Thanks for all the beta. I'm no doc or rehab pro so by all means consult someone who really knows their stuff. I popped my right arm/shoulder and my 2 buddies I was with couldn't put it back despite best efforts. Got fixed at the hospital and two weeks later began rehab which consisted of theraband excercises thrice daily. Depending on the severity of your injury, imo weights could cause too much stress and offer neither flexibility nor a wide variety of motion. Therabands enable a much, much wider range of potential motion in order to address a specific injury. The width of the band I think is more effective than a narrow bungy because it spreads stress over a wider area. It will seem more comfortable too. The bands vary in elasticity allowing you to start slowly and build up to the tougher bands. Another advantage, versus pumping iron, is that you can rehab your injury pretty much anywhere as each band folds up to the size of a small wallet. The rehab folks had me perform very specific shoulder/arm motion excercises. Mind you this was not pumping iron and definitely felt kinna wimpy at first. But the point, I believe, is repetition of motion in order to slowly and safely heal the affected tissue. As you get stonger and stronger you move up to therabands with less elasticity. After a while and after I was fairly well along in rehab I got bored, as did the hound, and started playing tug-o-war. The therabands were quicky decimated and I just started using old towels and attempted to repeat the same types of motions as in theraband rehab. Definitely see a doc, identify your SPECIFIC injury, and then a good rehab pro will set you up. Good healing to ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 Gracias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Hi Rob. Bummer about the shoulder. I tweaked mine earlier this spring. I had the same troubles as you with manteling and arm-baring. Two of my rotator cuff muscles were involved and then the PT my doc prescribed was too aggressive and further tweaked a couple more muscles. I could hardly move my shoulder and was really bummed about missing out on the climbing season. What I learned is that soft tissue injuries cause immediate weakening of the muscle/tendon and the scarring that takes place during healing can also limit mobility, elasticity and function of the tissue. You need to take some time off and get some combination of therapy/rehab. Here's what worked for me. After about 6 weeks of PT and actually feeling worse, I decided to get some massage work on the shoulder by someone I knew was an expert in working with injuries. She did work to breakdown scar tissue, calm the spasming of the larger muscles that were working to stabilize the rotator cuff (and causing a lot of pain) and also did some lymph drainage to help with the inflammation (I don't like taking anti-inflammatory drugs). I continued to see my PT and told him I thought he was being too aggressive with the strengthening, so we focused on stretching to increase joint mobility and range of motion. I also saw the massage therapist once a week for 5 weeks. In my view the massage and stretching along with rest from strengthening got me to a point where everthing calmed down and I could work out and climb again. It was a long process and I am not back to full strength/endurance yet, but that takes time. Hope you feel better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 For God's sake, talk to a damn doctor, preferably an upper extremity specialist before you start throwing weights around or tugging on stuff! While some exercises will help your shoulder, some will exacerbate things. The shoulder being a complex, fragile, and tightly organized joint, it's easy to think the pain is coming from something other than what it's really coming from (see DFA's "rotator cuff" problem that turned out to be a labrum tear a-la Mr. Radon). A little inflammation will go a long way toward making everything worse as tendons that had very little room to maneuver in the first place get fat and have less room to move, and start getting irritated, and more inflamed, etc. Bottom line: diving into "recovery" exercises without properly diagnosing the problem could make things hella worse. Reiterating Mr. Radon's advice: if you don't have a definitive answer as to what is wrong (and your insurance is good!), firmly request an MRI, as this will usually catch what X-Rays will not, and may save you a lot of wasted PT time if what you really need is surgery. (And keep in mind that some things -- like the labrum tear -- will not heal without surgery, and, if left untreated, could lead to your biceps tendon tearing completely loose. If this happens, it's unreparable, and you're fucked. Mull it over.) Hopefully you don't have such a major problem, though. DFA tries to take care of his shoulders with lots of push-ups, and a slew of exercises and stretches he learned from the phys. therapist post surgery, (many of which can be found on the internet and are sorta tough to describe) as well as bouldering at his limit in the gym. Wait a sec, that last one may not be that helpful ... Also, if you're tired of pumping your body full of Advil, Aleve, Vioxx, Mobic, or whatever, try taking Bromelain, which is an enzyme from pineapples. While it's usually used as a digestive aid, it's also a fab anti-inflammatory (do some research on the internet before taking it, as there are things one should know about how it works before taking it), and has also been shown to help your body absorb glucosamine. Bonus! Good luck, hombre! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakioawa Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Do you know precisely what kind of injury you had? Since you doc said a bone injury it sounds similar to mine. I've had 3 surgeries. One right, 2 left. The first when I was quite young. They the other two in the last 5 years. See link below. . . . http://www.orthop.washington.edu/faculty/Matsen/dislocation/05 This is my docs web site. He is great and understands climbers, he's done a bit himself. This is his sub specialty and really know's whats up. As to exercise. I tried a lot of things. After the first surgery failed I really didn't want to go through it again. So I tried a lot of things. None worked. So my opinion is get it checked out. Some of these things will show up on an Xray, but an expert can feel the injury too. It will hurt a bit, and the recovery will take a while. But now is a good time. I had my last surgery in April of 2002 and skied off Rainier summit 7 week later. Be agressive in recovery. He had me doing exercises even before all the anethesia had completely worn off. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted October 10, 2003 Author Share Posted October 10, 2003 Got an appointment with an orthopedist specializing in shoulder injuries and a refill of vicodins. Livin' the high life. Thanks for all the advice everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchfest Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 rbw1966 said: Got an appointment with an orthopedist specializing in shoulder injuries and a refill of vicodins. Livin' the high life. You could sell the refills for $5 a pop and help pay for that shoulder surgery you're gonna need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted October 10, 2003 Author Share Posted October 10, 2003 I'm insured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchfest Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 sell em anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted October 10, 2003 Author Share Posted October 10, 2003 Funny the coincidence between the content of your post and the timing of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtguide Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 In Portland an excellent orthopedist/shoulder man is Dr. Ira Weintraub,himself a climber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 hakioawa said: Do you know precisely what kind of injury you had? Since you doc said a bone injury it sounds similar to mine. I've had 3 surgeries. One right, 2 left. The first when I was quite young. They the other two in the last 5 years. See link below. . . . http://www.orthop.washington.edu/faculty/Matsen/dislocation/05 This is my docs web site. He is great and understands climbers, he's done a bit himself. This is his sub specialty and really know's whats up. As to exercise. I tried a lot of things. After the first surgery failed I really didn't want to go through it again. So I tried a lot of things. None worked. So my opinion is get it checked out. Some of these things will show up on an Xray, but an expert can feel the injury too. It will hurt a bit, and the recovery will take a while. But now is a good time. I had my last surgery in April of 2002 and skied off Rainier summit 7 week later. Be agressive in recovery. He had me doing exercises even before all the anethesia had completely worn off. Good luck. this is a problem- a surgeon will do a surgery and this is a wrong turn of events. with body work modalities like pt, chiro, acupuncture or massage the side effects are minimal and you can't un-do suregery. so try everything else before. in 1996 i suffered shoulder dislocation. dx was "multi- directional instability". orthopedic surgeon recommended surgery after 1 visit. i started checking out other options and reading about this pathology. according to many medical publications surgery was not recommended for this condition and final outcomes were usually bad. so if i went with his recommendation i would be most likely fucked now. try as many things as you can, find someone who works with athletes and try everything else before you go under the knife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakioawa Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 glassgowkiss said: hakioawa said: Do you know precisely what kind of injury you had? Since you doc said a bone injury it sounds similar to mine. I've had 3 surgeries. One right, 2 left. The first when I was quite young. They the other two in the last 5 years. See link below. . . . http://www.orthop.washington.edu/faculty/Matsen/dislocation/05 This is my docs web site. He is great and understands climbers, he's done a bit himself. This is his sub specialty and really know's whats up. As to exercise. I tried a lot of things. After the first surgery failed I really didn't want to go through it again. So I tried a lot of things. None worked. So my opinion is get it checked out. Some of these things will show up on an Xray, but an expert can feel the injury too. It will hurt a bit, and the recovery will take a while. But now is a good time. I had my last surgery in April of 2002 and skied off Rainier summit 7 week later. Be agressive in recovery. He had me doing exercises even before all the anethesia had completely worn off. Good luck. this is a problem- a surgeon will do a surgery and this is a wrong turn of events. with body work modalities like pt, chiro, acupuncture or massage the side effects are minimal and you can't un-do suregery. so try everything else before. in 1996 i suffered shoulder dislocation. dx was "multi- directional instability". orthopedic surgeon recommended surgery after 1 visit. i started checking out other options and reading about this pathology. according to many medical publications surgery was not recommended for this condition and final outcomes were usually bad. so if i went with his recommendation i would be most likely fucked now. try as many things as you can, find someone who works with athletes and try everything else before you go under the knife. Glasgow, Yes I agree. Surgery is a last resort. I have dislocated my shoulders probably 20 times. I know I am susspeptable to it. I tried may PT regimes. They all failed. I do not beileve in chiro, its voodoo in my opioion as is accupuncture. On my left shoulder there was obvious (even I could see it in the XRays) damage to the glenoid (shoulder socket). Massage would not help, infact it made things worse. After several years, and a dislocation that nearly caused me to drown, I relented and had a second surgery. It worked, like nothing else. It literally changed my life. In my research I found that my first surgery probably should not have been performed. I was too young at the time. Every case is different. Surgons like to cut. Get a second and third opinion, but do not be afraid of the surgery. Yes it sucks, but you will heal. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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