Dru Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 the actual Pi Pillar is up on the right hand skyline near the moon and it looks like the number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 total dirt grab, what was i thinkin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 has the flagpole been freed yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONCHO&LEFTY Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Nice picture. Thanks for posting! P.O.P is on or near Rexford? Was checking out that area couple weeks ago-looks cool. Great weather in B'ham right now! Check out this pic. No lighting grab, but it looks like daytime! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 bobbyp thew down a real jauntlet!!! who will free thin red line? cpb? rumr? micro? the guides from mazama?? an outside source?? only time will tell..................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Index: Quietlands Pastime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 erik said: bobbyp thew down a real jauntlet!!! who will free thin red line? cpb? rumr? micro? the guides from mazama?? an outside source?? only time will tell..................... who will free it without adding a bunch o' bolts? alex huber styleeeeee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Dru said: who will free it without adding a bunch o' bolts? alex huber styleeeeee? You mena after extensive tr'ing and presinspection. What about the bottom 40' of 10% - steep, clean and hard. PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 extensive TRing and preinspection is also common before bolting in order to find out where to place the bolts..... the headpoint is a respected and inspiring traditional tactic! altho not as good as an onsight, of course don't forget good ol COBRA CRACK at Squamish. could it be the PNW's first legit (not a bunch of lamo pin scars) trad 5.14? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 am not against preinspection but I do think that tr’ing and preinspection combined to create runout routes is BS and will eventually be seen as a bogus way to climb. Certainly Huber's ascents are impressive. I have even posted some of his achievements on this site. I just happen to think that he looses some style points sometimes. What is the deal w/ Cobra crack? I saw it mentioned on another board but didn't read the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Peter_Puget said: but I do think that tr’ing and preinspection combined to create runout routes is BS and will eventually be seen as a bogus way to climb. The point is not to "create runout routes" but to "respect the original ascent style by avoiding the addition of new fixed gear which would detract from the original ascent". Runouts are a part of climbing. If you can't deal with them, maybe you should focus on the existing climbs which are well protected, or on establishing NEW well protected climbs, instead of adding protection to an existing climb to bring it within your comfort threshold? Just a thought, cause for some people head control during a difficult runout is an integral part of the climbing experience. As for Cobra Crack - everyone from Peter Croft thru Hamish, Greg, Jim Sandford, to the newest hotshots on da scene like Andrew Boyd and Jordan Wright, have tried to free it - no dice so far. severely overhanging to roof rattle fingers with no feet. Fun clean aid though! Hangs way out over the trail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Dru said: Peter_Puget said: but I do think that tr’ing and preinspection combined to create runout routes is BS and will eventually be seen as a bogus way to climb. The point is not to "create runout routes" but to "respect the original ascent style by avoiding the addition of new fixed gear which would detract from the original ascent". Ya Ya ya Dru that is patent nonesense. To TR and preinspect a route established from the ground up in order to respect the orginal ground up fa is flat out goofy. Anyway.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 The point is to free climb the original line using the same gear. Hubers try it working the moves and headpointing. Leo Houlding tries it on sight and ground up. It's just a differing style. Are you suggesting that those who bolt the routes are gonna be adding their bolts on sight, free and on the lead? No? Then yadayadayada your dissing of headpointing is pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordop Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 How 'bout the PLI Wall? Course, somone would have to FINISH it before it could be freed. But if it were ever freed . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 jordop said: How 'bout the PLI Wall? Course, somone would have to FINISH it before it could be freed. But if it were ever freed . . . . trees are aid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Dru said: [italics added]The point is to free climb the original line using the same gear. Hubers try it working the moves and headpointing. Leo Houlding tries it on sight and ground up. It's just a differing style. Are you suggesting that those who bolt the routes are gonna be adding their bolts on sight, free and on the lead? No? Then yadayadayada your dissing of headpointing is pointless. Dru you are you being serious? For example, Huber used a "beak" to protect a line. Beaks simply were not available when the FA was done. Many routes he has freed were first done with pitons. He freely uses clean gear as well as pins. One of Huber's goal is to make a runout route. That is fine I just think it is a goofy way to do things. I never suggested that those who might want to add bolts would be doing so from the ground up. I have simply said that at times Huber's style is to my mind impressive from a physical perspective but as a matter of style a bit poor. I wasn't Yadayada dissing the redpoint but your argument supporting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Huber, Houlding, etc. are using the aid gear that exists on the line. If there is a beak placement, or a fixed pin, then that is his pro. Leo Houlding added a hood ornament for an aid move once It has nothing to do with using the exact same gear as was used on the original ascent. If that was the case no one would use cams on the Salathe. Your spurious arguments are illogical and invalid as always! But keep them coming cause it is fun As to "the goal is to make a runout route" - the goal is not to retrobolt while freeing. Any tactics used in support of this goal are to be supported. If a hard crack protects well - by your argument, if he wanted to make a runout he'd fill it in with cement like the French do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyperu Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 complete n.e butt on dragontail, tangerine headwall s.e.w.s, concord e.face... the real question should be who wants to start trying to get after some of this shit... maybe over my head some of it, but i'm all about trying whatever with others who have imagination and determination. anythings possible.-bp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Dru said: Huber, Houlding, etc. are using the aid gear that exists on the line. Dru Huber placed that Beak it didn't "exist on the line" If there is a beak placement, or a fixed pin, then that is his pro. Leo Houlding added a hood ornament for an aid move once It has nothing to do with using the exact same gear as was used on the original ascent. Hey that's what I just said If that was the case no one would use cams on the Salathe. Your spurious arguments are illogical and invalid as always! nonesense But keep them coming cause it is fun As to "the goal is to make a runout route" - the goal is not to retrobolt while freeing. Any tactics used in support of this goal are to be supported. If a hard crack protects well - by your argument, if he wanted to make a runout he'd fill it in with cement like the French nonesense do. My point is simply that in the future tr'ing and tr practice will be seen in the same light as the use of fixed ropes were on the fa of the Dihedral Wall. It is not a question of runouts but of style. I am not making a case against runouts. I simply am asserting that the tr and rehearsal methods of the Hubers will be considered to be in poor style in a few years and the ground up ethic will be the cutting edge. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Peter_Puget said: Dru said: Huber, Houlding, etc. are using the aid gear that exists on the line. Dru Huber placed that Beak it didn't "exist on the line" If there is a beak placement, or a fixed pin, then that is his pro. Leo Houlding added a hood ornament for an aid move once It has nothing to do with using the exact same gear as was used on the original ascent. Hey that's what I just said If that was the case no one would use cams on the Salathe. Your spurious arguments are illogical and invalid as always! nonesense But keep them coming cause it is fun As to "the goal is to make a runout route" - the goal is not to retrobolt while freeing. Any tactics used in support of this goal are to be supported. If a hard crack protects well - by your argument, if he wanted to make a runout he'd fill it in with cement like the French nonesense do. My point is simply that in the future tr'ing and tr practice will be seen in the same light as the use of fixed ropes were on the fa of the Dihedral Wall. It is not a question of runouts but of style. I am not making a case against runouts. I simply am asserting that the tr and rehearsal methods of the Hubers will be considered to be in poor style in a few years and the ground up ethic will be the cutting edge. Time will tell. NO BOLTS NO BOLTS NO BOLTS these two styles, rehearsed and onsighted, have co existed for a long time. in britain some of the e5's, most e6's and almost all e7's were put up headpoint style. now the e5-e7 routes are onsighted and people are headpointing e8, e9 and e10. so its not that the style will whither away but when people are onsighting stuff like el corazon and salathe, the worked headpoint style will be being used on trad routes with multiple 5.14 pitches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 oh yeah hey peter pungent there is only one E in nonsense!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 LOl It's funny I was reading a interview in an old mountain. I think the one from '77? (#63)with the Squamich article. The interview was with Mike Graham at the end of a vacation climbing trip to England. It was funny how the english habits of TR'ing and preinspecting were brought up explicitly as poor ethics! Britain is such a small freakign place and yet there are a million really strong guys there. Anyone who travels to europe will be shocked at how many more climbers are sending hard routes. When the ground uppers start freeing walls or at least giving good efforts, the TRers will be as scarce as rap bolters at Curbar. PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Dru said: oh yeah hey peter pungent there is only one E in nonsense!!!!! I took writing lessons from ERIK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 RuMR said: Potential lines to be freed locally... Rudi it might not be your thing but one thing I've been thinking about as a project for the last two years is a FFA of one of the Norweigian Buttresses. Might be a worthy project. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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