Fear

[incubus]

Does it not seem to you that the principal emotional drive of the liberal establishment is fear? These people seem terribly afraid that somebody might get hurt. Well, somebody might, but that is true totally apart from political considerations and need not be given prominence in our discussions. Fear is not a dignified emotion, and while we must admit that it exists, we must not dignify it as a prime causative agent. Everybody knows fear - what is important is not to let that bother you. This continued journalistic wringing of hands is beneath our dignity. Nothing significant has ever been achieved by men who let apprehension corrode their principles.

 

[Sphinx]

Sup Trask?

[erik]

[Greg_W]

By instilling fear of potential travesties, both liberals and conservatives get their party faithful to rally behind their anti-freedom, big-government, power-mongering legislation.

[chelle]

Have you seen Bowling for Columbine and Michael Moore's discussion of our country's culture of fear? Pretty interesting POV.

 

Yes Greg, I know he has been criticised for stretching some of the facts on the NRA, but on the whole it made me think about how many people base their decisions on fear.

[RobBob]

Michael Moore is a fat pansey.

[Dru]

scaredeycats!

[incubus]

RobBob said:

Michael Moore is a fat pansy.

Moore is not interested in exploring complexity. He likes to find scapegoats - generally some mix of corporations, America, and "stupid white males" - and hammer them. To properly arouse anger at his scapegoats, he ignores nuance and subtlety, and misrepresents statistics. It is not enough to criticize the NRA - Moore needs to make Charlton Heston look like a racist. It is not enough to find out why other countries have a lower murder rate than the US - Moore needs to make the difference in murder rates sound 20 times as bad as it is. And God knows he can't admit that in other crime categories America is actually safer than other countries. Then people might actually take a balanced look at the US, instead of finding America despicable.

 

In short - Moore is a cocksucker.

[Greg_W]

ehmmic said:

Have you seen Bowling for Columbine and Michael Moore's discussion of our country's culture of fear? Pretty interesting POV.

 

Yes Greg, I know he has been criticised for stretching some of the facts on the NRA, but on the whole it made me think about how many people base their decisions on fear.

 

Yeah, we should let the government handle everything, then there will be nothing to fear. With all the guns gone, noone will hurt anyone and we'll all live in brotherly harmony. Instead of "fear", how about refusal to be a victim? Moore is so blatantly anti-American and anti-freedom, it's disgusting. Several websites that give him broad-based support are operated by outspoken socialist and communist groups. That tells you what his perfect view of America is.

[RobBob]

Moore represents the worst of America---the smartass who takes no responsibility himself, but makes a career out of criticising the efforts of others. I lump a lot of do-gooders into this profile---they want recognition without any real responsibility for themselves.

[incubus]

ehmmic, Moore contradicts himself vividly every few minutes - his film has the scattershot shapelessness of a concept album made by a singles band. If he gets both his statistics on the Pentagon budget and his statistics about his personal life wrong by a factor of 10, we should be very careful in trusting the statistics he presents in "Bowling for Columbine."

[Dru]

moore is funny. biased, fat guy on the left balances out biased, fat guys on the right like rush limburger. TV nation was a pretty good show. my favorite was where they bribed a congressman to get TV Nation Day proclaimed.

[erik]

i find moore entertaing as i put little effort into digging too deep into any media. but the most important thing he can do is make everyone pause and think for a minute. consider the options and alternatives, irregardless wheter you agree or not. lotsa people took the time to refute what he has to say, so atleast something is working.

 

 

[catbirdseat]

Moore needs to make Charlton Heston look like a racist. It is not enough to find out why other countries have a lower murder rate than the US - Moore needs to make the difference in murder rates sound 20 times as bad as it is.

Moore doesn't need to exaggerate. Our murder rates are actually THAT bad compared to other first world democracies.

[rbw1966]

I liked the episode where he met with Phil Knight and asked him why he does not make his shoes in the US. Knight replied that no one in the US wants to make shoes. Moore then interviewed several folks in Flint who said they'd work in a shoe factory. He showed the footage to Knight and even offered 10K of his own money if Knight would match it and open a factory in Flint.

 

Fun stuff.

[Greg_W]

erik said:

i find moore entertaing as i put little effort into digging too deep into any media. but the most important thing he can do is make everyone pause and think for a minute. consider the options and alternatives, irregardless wheter you agree or not. lotsa people took the time to refute what he has to say, so atleast something is working.

 

 

Good logic, Erik. We need some guy to make a movie filled with errors and outright lies and that's A GOOD THING? You're smoking too much pot.

[RobBob]

But Moore couldn't keep a shift of dairy queen workers at work, satisfied, and doing their job. I can't get past the hypocrasy of that to find him funny. Jackass is funny. Michael Moore is not.

[rbw1966]

Greg_W said:

erik said:

i find moore entertaing as i put little effort into digging too deep into any media. but the most important thing he can do is make everyone pause and think for a minute. consider the options and alternatives, irregardless wheter you agree or not. lotsa people took the time to refute what he has to say, so atleast something is working.

 

 

Good logic, Erik. We need some guy to make a movie filled with errors and outright lies and that's A GOOD THING? You're smoking too much pot.

 

Better a movie than an entire administration.

[chelle]

incubus said:

Michelle, Moore contradicts himself vividly every few minutes - his film has the scattershot shapelessness of a concept album made by a singles band. If he gets both his statistics on the Pentagon budget and his statistics about his personal life wrong by a factor of 10, we should be very careful in trusting the statistics he presents in "Bowling for Columbine."

 

Don't worry Incubus, I don't get spoon fed information by any source. But the movie did make me think and start doing some of my own research on policies and politicians. I thought the overall premise that Fear is one thing in our culture that makes us different and may drive the difference in murder rates and violence compared to other first world countries. His comparision of our US culture vs. Canada on the topic was pretty interesting.

[minx]

Greg_W said:

erik said:

i find moore entertaing as i put little effort into digging too deep into any media. but the most important thing he can do is make everyone pause and think for a minute. consider the options and alternatives, irregardless wheter you agree or not. lotsa people took the time to refute what he has to say, so atleast something is working.

 

 

Good logic, Erik. We need some guy to make a movie filled with errors and outright lies and that's A GOOD THING? You're smoking too much pot.

 

hey hey hey! for one brief moment erik might have a decent point. it provokes thought. i read up on some of it after seeing that movie. while i think it's cruddy that he's not accurate, erik is right, it makes people think and hopefully learn more. go back to watching dr. phil and your group hugs

[ryland_moore]

Our murder rates are high, but I think the attack on Heston in BFC was a little irrational. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Mr. Moore is a witty individual and I think his heart is in the right place, but does step too far over the line with some of his antics. For the record, I am considered a liberal in the South and a Conservative in Eugene, if that helps.

[Stonehead]

incubus said:

Does it not seem to you that the principal emotional drive of the liberal establishment is fear? These people seem terribly afraid that somebody might get hurt. Well, somebody might, but that is true totally apart from political considerations and need not be given prominence in our discussions. Fear is not a dignified emotion, and while we must admit that it exists, we must not dignify it as a prime causative agent. Everybody knows fear - what is important is not to let that bother you. This continued journalistic wringing of hands is beneath our dignity. Nothing significant has ever been achieved by men who let apprehension corrode their principles.

 

I'd have to say that fear is the emotional driver of both dominant parties. You certainly can't discount how 'The Right' has recognised the value of fear to gain control.

 

Left or Right, it's always some sumabitch politician who decides that the masses have to be led by their noses like cattle. Well, don't count me among the masses.

[erik]

actually greg i am out....got some for me?

 

um, apprently you did not read what i wrote? i cared little for the overall movie other then it allowed me to pause and think about things in my life. i could really careless about all you gun owners and how you cry for freedom and the life shit. i could careless!!!

 

and why would you think this form of media should be/is more truthful then anyother type?

 

 

[incubus]

Hmmm, what would Barbara say?

 

[RobBob]

Mr. Moore is a witty individual and I think his heart is in the right place, but does step too far over the line with some of his antics.

 

I find him on the same intellectual plane as Howard Stern. In fact it's the same type of ambush journalism designed to smear people and make good people look stupid.