RuMR Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 replacing shitty fixed pins w/ bolts????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 for the most part. especially if the placements are fagile. and sometimes even at the cruxes i would say a bolt may be a good idea if the fall has injury poetential. i dont ever want to ger hurt, but i would consider a crag injury the worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 I pretty much agree with ERIC. Especially at crags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 depends on the pin doesn't it? sometimes you pull that thing out and it leaves a nice slot for a tcu or nut or something. Sometimes it leaves a new fingerlock. ref Neat and Cool in Squamish. I hate it when a fixed pin gets pulled out but leaves behind sharp little rusty metal flakes welded to the rock. I've had a few cuts from that. Good thing my tetanus shot is current. How about this. What if there is a nice thin crack that was first climbed on aid, with a bathook hole off to the side at the top where the cracks peters to a seam. Since then the crack has been freed at some 5.hard with a dyno at the top, but also the bathook hole has been blown out to an unusable state. Is it OK to re-drill the bathook hole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 lotsa those old pin placements take small gear now. like fern said + zerocams!!! it doesnt have to be a 1:1 replacement either, like 4 fp's on horrors of ivan are now 2 bolts. cause bolts dont have to go in cracks like fp's do. so the placement can be more logical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_Pine Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_Pine Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 Fair enough. Then I will straightforwardly point out thatt Slow Children apparently had many old fixed pins removed. If someone had replaced those pins with bolts it would have surely blemished what is (without pins or bolts) an outstanding pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 much better! tho i think one can argue is that the gear placements are quite good on that route. if you use the pin scars or not. the one pin that used to be down low that traveresed into the main corner off of that block is gone, but it takes gear well there too!!! well i guess well enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted September 19, 2003 Author Share Posted September 19, 2003 Al_Pine said: There used to be a bunch of fixed pins on Slow Children (old guidebook) . It would make that climb so much easier if someone would put some bolts where those pins used to be. Now this is the dilemna...I wouldn't replace pins on that thing...but that's cuz i feel ok on the available gear...thisis where things get fuzzy...cuz its what individuals "feel" like... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 I somewhat agree with the general premise of the thread but I certainly wouldn't agree with a blanket statement that "shitty pins" would be better replaced with bolts. For example, as Al PIne's troll pointed out, I wouldn't say that a bolt should be installed any place where there is now a poor pin placement on a climb that is at least sometimes aided. Or as Dru and somebody else pointed out (Fern?) - tiny tcu's go into old pin placements and we don't need a bolt if there is a reasonable tcu placement, or if there is a poor one but some good pro is not too far below. On some obscure adventure climb, I'd leave the poor pin placement alone but on a popular crag route, I'd be more likely to agree with putting a bolt where there is a marginal pin that is being removed and reinstalled frequently, so that the rock is being degraded and climbers are repeatedly exposed to unnecessary risk. Perhaps it is obvious, but these decisions have to be made on a case-by-case basis -- don't they? RuMR may be implying the converse of what he said, however: it is not always the case that nobody should place a bolt if a pin can possibly be placed nearby. In other words, sometimes a bolt is appropriate even if a poor piton may be placed nearby. Most of us would agree with that statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancegranite Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 this is like eating ice cream with a hot dog. you can eat it with the weiner, it's better to put it in the bun. pitons are fun to place. you feel like... every story written about climbing written before 1972. "there I was..40 feet out,I look back..the rope hung in a lonely arc down to some poor soul i met at the hut. the fellow's name was Alberto, I believe.. I turn, to see a snow flake, slowly float down the wall and land on my bare hand. reaching higher,my fingers find a crack over the roof. it's too small to jam. things are starting to look desprate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 lancegranite said: this is like eating ice cream with a hot dog. you can eat it with the weiner, it's better to put it in the bun. pitons are fun to place. you feel like... every story written about climbing written before 1972. "there I was..40 feet out,I look back..the rope hung in a lonely arc down to some poor soul i met at the hut. the fellow's name was Alberto, I believe.. I turn, to see a snow flake, slowly float down the wall and land on my bare hand. reaching higher,my fingers find a crack over the roof. it's too small to jam. things are starting to look desprate... I reverse stack two stoppers for expansion and the move goes at 5.8. Why did I bring all these heavy pins? Alberto is getting restless......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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