MIND CONTROL

[erik]

quote:

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Originally posted by hakioawa:

Fall. Thats my advice.

Or, if you can find 2 belayers, set up a top rope with a loose belay. They with the second rope belayed from below, "lead" a pitch with variable quality placements and fall on each one. The top rope is there as a backup. You can start by placing a peice, down climbing a few feet below it and taking a little fall. Then fall from a position level with the piece. Then above it. You will quickly figure out a "good" vs. "questionable" placement. The only downside is the wear on your gear.

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my question to this..is how does this make you a better climber????? practicing falling i would believe make you only a better faller....and what is this crap with plaicing gear on tr then taking a tr on fall on to it.......perfect practice makes perfect.....all this other crap just confuses the situation..........

[pope]

For certain, Erik. Once the little voice in your head says, "It's OK to fall you can't get hurt here man," watch out. This is a sign that you've trained yourself to rely on your gear, that you've trained yourself to quit fighting gravity and succumb to the often mistaken notion that falling is both safe and acceptable. Often it is not. The best instinct to have in almost every situation is a fighting instinct. Rather than relaxing my mind by remembering that falling might be safe, I prefer to "relax" by remembering that I've fought through similarly difficult ground, occasionally with crappy gear, and refused to let go. Instead of being comfortable with falling, you should be comfortable with being near falling and still pulling it together.

Best advice I've read in the thread (several people offered it but I think Matt Anderson said it first...not that everything he said is great advice): get comfortable being above your gear by getting outside and getting above your gear...frequently!

[Dru]

listen to 70s punk rock, 80s industrial and 90s rap music, get all dark and moody, get dumped, go solo. it works fer Twight!!

[todd]

id start to list the must dos at the new, but it would pretty much be the same thing as reading the guide book and looking for the stars. thats what i always did and with the number of routes in each area, its impossible to go somewhere and not find something you like. but if your going up that way, head to seneca rocks. i think that place would be the solution to your problem (if you want to call it that). the routes there are pretty short yet because of the nature of the formation feel extremely airy, and the south summit is still one of the coolest places ive ever been. there are also a number of moderate routes that protect pretty well and will get you adjusted to that steep, bulgy climbing on moderate routes. everyone will steer you towards "ecstasy" (5.7) and it deserves all the credit it gets. but i recommend trying "west pole" (5.7). it has a big, exposed roof at the top that looks pretty scary from the parking lot but once youre in it, it goes smooth and the protection is pretty decent. if you dont really want to start out on the senceca "5.7+'s" (but i think youll find that the fearsome, sketchy reputation seneca has is sometimes overstated), try "conn's east" (5.5) the 2nd pitch gets pretty steep and airy but only for a short bit, and its hard to find those situations on other climbs at that grade.

[specialed]

Plus there's a pizza restaurant in Seneca (or whatever the town is called that's right there) where you can BYOB Sit on their deck and get rowdy. Sometimes, ya gotta love the south.

[johnny]

Welcome to the south indeed!! 'Tis a brave new world here 'tis, only hope I survive it!!

Bet I can do more pullups now than I could when I moved out here!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cpt.Caveman]

I believe it. I recently heard from Alaskan hardman that some southern people call 90 degree blank\holdless walls "Slabs", and would not climb them because they would not find it to their liking. I dont think homey was bsing me either. But I guess every rock has it's technique..

[johnny]

Just had to add this thought.....A buddy here told me to break every long problem down into bits. A boulder problem to a rest, then focus on the next one. (He boulders a lot, who doesn't in NC?????) Pull like hell through the section you are on, then find a rest and place gear.

It has helped me so far.....

[johnny]

Does Iggy Pop count?? Hey Dru, is Seattle in Canada? Many people down here seem to think so, or if they know where it really is they figure it may as well be.

Pope, Sounds all well and good to have the fighting spirit and all, and I agree to a point. I work my ass off when I climb, I constantly push myself beyond what I percieve as my limits. Doesn't it make sense though, since you WILL eventually fall to have some idea how to do it properly, improve your chances of pulling it off somehwhat calmly instead of completely freaked and tense as hell? I know I usually fall better when I ski if I have a bit of a buzz on (OK maybe I just fall more.....) but really I am just more relaxed while spinning ass over teakettle in the snow.

This is all theory of course since I have to wait till Friday at Moore's to tie in again........Thank you all for the advice.

And Chuck, honey, please don't be mad at me, I never joined the military because they really don't want someone like me who questions everything that everyone says. Group hug???? Peppermint tea??

[Dru]

Is Seattle in Canada, johnny? They want to be but we won't let them in until they apologize for creating the "plaid flannel shirt grunge look".

[allison]

OK, this is a little off-topic, but the notion that you can't get hurt sport climbing, or that it's perfectly safe, has come up again in this thread. It just drives me nuts when I hear that. I took a perfectly normal fall with no operator error (other than falling) or equipment failure, and did not deck, and got seriously fucked up physically. Sure, it's safer than the other disciplines of climbing, but I found out the hard way that it's darn easy to break both of your ankles while clipping the bolts. It was pretty hard to explain to my mom after I had convinced her that sport climbing is "perfectly safe."

[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: allison ]

[chucK]

Broke both ankles! That sucks.

Perhaps your definition of what constitutes a "sport climb" differs from mine.

Since you brought it up, maybe you'd be willing to provide further details of your unfortunate mishap. I'm sure there are lots of people here who would love to discuss it to death.

[Dru]

you swing into the wall or hit a bulge or what?? i sprained an ankle falling while trad climbing once. other than that no injuries. i did get cut up falling 40 feet once. nearly dying but no injuries does not count as injured in my books, but maybe it should. closest calls have come from approaching and descending not actually on routes.

[specialed]

You can get hurt walking down the street if you don't do it right. OF COURSE you can get hurt sport climbing. The closest calls I've ever seen in climbing have been from people sport climbing. (though all my "injuries" have come from ascents and descents too) Maybe because it is generally accepted that sport climbing is totally safe. It might require less experience, proficiency, and skill than trad but the possibility of making mistakes is still there.

[chucK]

Ahh.. but specialed she clearly specified "no operator error"

[allison]

Sure, I'll indulge you.

July 5, 1996, climbing for the first time at Skaha. It was my first summer, I was a new climber but had been climbing a lot, at many different areas with a variety of partners. My skills were just fine.

I started up my second lead of the trip, a little 5.8 called Like It In Her Panties, and I fell off between the first bolt and the second bolt. In recreating the events I now know I was reaching back to grab a draw off of my harness for the second bolt when I fell off. My partner caught me in time to keep me from decking (THANK YOU!), but when the rope went tight I slammed heels-first into the rock, swung out, and slammed in toes first. The first impact cracked my right heel bone and compound-fractured the body of my right talus bone, and the second one broke my left foot, one of the metatarsals. FYI the route is pretty much dead vertical.

The accident was my fault, but the consequenses were surprisingly serious. I fell because I'd forgotten to clean the dirt off the bottom of my shoes.

The ER in Penticton misdiagnosed all of the breaks. My (now former) doc at Group Death also missed all three broken bones despite the talus being broken in 2 directions. Finally an orthopod looked carefully enough at the Xrays, several days after the accident. The talus is pinned together now. I was off work until September of that year and didn't feel completely healed for about 6 months.

It was 5 and a half years ago. It's been a hell of a rough recovery. I have pain in the ankle about every other day, sometimes bad enough to keep me up at night. I couldn't run, ski, or backpack until the last year or so. I am still scared to lead and rarely do it any more. I am a lame-o toproper and don't enjoy climbing nearly as much as I did before.

Lightweight backpacking gear and trekking poles finally got me fully back on the trail last summer. I can run now, but not very far. I just started downhill skiing this season with the help of parabolic skis. I don't have enough rotation to carve a turn on straight skis.

So.....living with this every day for a while now I am a little sensitive to the whole idea that sport climbing is perfectly safe.....

[Rafael_H]

So, Allison, I am very interested, how many feet to the ground you were after being caught(hitting youl feet)?

Thank you.

[allison]

OK, I see you guys were busy while I was writing down my story, so I'll clarify before you do it for me:

When I said 'no operator error' I meant that there were no badly tied knots or faulty rap setups, that sort of thing. I fell because my shoes were dirty, but the normal expectation that you can't get hurt by taking a simple fall like that, well, it didn't quite work out that way.

Raf, I was pretty close to hitting my belayer when the rope went taut. It's been a few years now but I'm thinking 6 or 7 feet off the deck

[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: allison ]

[erik]

well that is quite harsh allison. just proves sport climbing is that much worse then trad....i probably would have had like 6-7 pieces in by the time i was up to the second clip.

you mention your parents find climbing scary...mine too.

though the funny thing is that they prommoted us to race dirt bikes while growing up and after a shoulder injury and a head injury, they still claim it is safer then climbing.!?!?!?!

(knock on wood)

[willstrickland]

My worst injury climbing (knock wood)came from an 8ft sport climbing fall where I took a pendo into the wall and wrecked my ankle. The closest I've come to decking from any susbstantial height (again knock wood) was on TOPROPE! As a greenhorn climber of three months I almost grounded out from 25ft when climbing on another party's rope. These guys had anchored to two huge trees about 30 ft back from the edge with webbing. The whole deal was "sliding x" eq'ed but they somehow didn't clip one of the ends to one of the trees. The climb was on a big system of roofs, maybe 30 degrees overhanging. I pitched from the last roof move and kept falling and falling and falling...convinced that my belayer was at fault and also convinced that "HOLY SHIT I'm gonna deck". I came to a stop with my feet about 18" off the ground. I started yelling at my belayer, something to the effect of "WTF! WTF!" He just looked bewildered and said "I had you the whole time...look at the anchor". I look up and see the thing hanging halfway down the climb. I had fully extended the system back onto the one tree for a 20ft TR fall with rope stretch. Exciting, but not quite the form of excitement I was looking for.

[chucK]

Did your belayer take in rope while you were falling? That can cause the falling climber to whip into the wall harder, so usually you don't want to do that. In your case though he/she also had to worry about you decking.

[allison]

It happened so fast I can't say for sure, but that's probably what happened. When the rope went taut, it went very taut. And yes, decking was a consideration. I used to think I was lucky I didn't deck because I would have been really fucked up, but now that I've lived with this sad ankle for a while I wonder if the injuries from decking might have been better. Turns out the talus is considered the worst bone in your body to break.

[willstrickland]

quote:

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Originally posted by allison:

Turns out the talus is considered the worst bone in your body to break.

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From a healing standpoint, possibly, but from a trauma standpoint not even close. Femur and skull fractures lead the charge there.

[Rafael_H]

quote:

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Originally posted by chucK:

Did your belayer take in rope while you were falling? That can cause the falling climber to whip into the wall harder, so usually you don't want to do that. In your case though he/she also had to worry about you decking.

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That's what I was ultimately interested in, because falling from the second bolt, unless they are very close, should have created some slack. Were you at the first bolt, above, below? Perhaps the terrain...

Well, I wish you (Allison) well and happy climbing, don't be discouraged.

[erik]

quote:

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Originally posted by willstrickland:

From a healing standpoint, possibly, but from a trauma standpoint not even close. Femur and skull fractures lead the charge there.

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yea my skull fracture and facial lacerations bleed so much that i blacked out......quite fun when you are a couple miles from the truck....i still have the jersey that i was wearing and what once was blue is now all brown and black and red....bell was nice enough to give me a new helmet, but i was mind F*(&ked enough to sell my motorcycle....