mattp Posted August 3, 2003 Posted August 3, 2003 Fence_Sitter said: i think if you weren't grown up in the N.W. things might be different... many of you are from here and this state is muuuch different than eastern and especailly central states... perspective! Yo Fence. I grew up in Michigan. Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted August 3, 2003 Posted August 3, 2003 mattp said: Fence_Sitter said: i think if you weren't grown up in the N.W. things might be different... many of you are from here and this state is muuuch different than eastern and especailly central states... perspective! Yo Fence. I grew up in Michigan. damnit english... you as in plural you... was adressing washingtonians as a whole... Я иду от него Quote
lummox Posted August 3, 2003 Posted August 3, 2003 Fence_Sitter said: i think if you weren't grown up in the N.W. things might be different... many of you are from here and this state is muuuch different than eastern and especailly central states... perspective! tho ya dont need no evidence for this. it can be summed up in tow words: ralf nader Quote
minx Posted August 3, 2003 Posted August 3, 2003 Fence, chill, english is just fine for expressing your thoughts on this. but i wonder why any of you are bothering. we've beat this topic death. express your opinion w/your vote Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted August 3, 2003 Posted August 3, 2003 minx said: Fence, chill, english is just fine for expressing your thoughts on this. but i wonder why any of you are bothering. we've beat this topic death. express your opinion w/your vote no... i had the greatest saying... totally untranslatable... and i have mental blue balls for not using it! Quote
minx Posted August 3, 2003 Posted August 3, 2003 Fence, it is Saturday night. i'm sure you can go out and find a way to take care of those mental blue balls....try a dram of scotch w/a hot chica in the meantime, just give up the bush argument it's pointless, he's pointless Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted August 3, 2003 Posted August 3, 2003 minx said: Fence, it is Saturday night. i'm sure you can go out and find a way to take care of those mental blue balls....try a dram of scotch w/a hot chica in the meantime, just give up the bush argument it's pointless, he's pointless work at 4:30 getting the benjamins tho! Quote
mattp Posted August 3, 2003 Posted August 3, 2003 Fence, Wherever I got the idea that more educated people are more likely to be liberal, I have never really questioned it. I ran some internet searches and I found people asserting that more educated people are more likely to vote, more likely to engage in political protest, more likely to favor gun control, less likely to be anti-semetic, and less likely to rely on TV news as their main source of information about politics -- and I did not find a single place where someone was suggesting that more education led people toward traditional "conservative" positions. I'm sure you could find some, though, and I don't have any real statistics to back up my statement. Maybe I read it in some liberal news media in an article written by someone who was making things up. Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted August 3, 2003 Posted August 3, 2003 are you suggesting that conservatives are anti-semitic? if not, the only reason you believe that liberals are more educated is that they go to anti-war rallies and promote gun control? either way i look at this it makes little sense... either you are implying conservatives are all of these things or it is just a random compilation of things well read people do... Quote
mattp Posted August 4, 2003 Posted August 4, 2003 Yo Fence. Re-read my post. What I wrote was that I could not, in a few quick internet searches, find any real validation for my prior statement. As for anti-semeticism, I would tend to agree that it is not a classic conservative idea. However, I think the east-coast liberal establishment and the liberal enclave that I surround myself with has historcally been and probably still is way ahead of your middle America conservatives on this issue. And yes, smart and educated people ARE for gun control. Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted August 4, 2003 Posted August 4, 2003 And yes, smart and educated people ARE for gun control. are you saying the inverse is true? still is way ahead of your middle America conservatives on this issue there are conservatives that dont like in oklahoma... as i stated earlier, the only thing you see when you hear conservative is king of the hill... reality is not a TV show... the new copnservatives are not tied to partisan politics which their predecessors are... i am of this new generation... example: i am for gun control, i am against abortion, i am for green issues, i am against bigger millitary. though you all say that you make up your minds for you, your parties actually do this fo you... why is it that such a large percentage either embraces the warm embrace of all of the conservative ideals or those of the liberals? this seems ridiculous and yet you still say you have an open mind! pshaw! Quote
Billygoat Posted August 4, 2003 Posted August 4, 2003 Sphinx said: Billygoat said: Iraq never was and never will be a threat to us. You are stupid beyond belief. Read up on Saddam. The guy was a MAJOR risk to everyone. Remember the Gulf War? What, cause it took us a whole week to crush his army?!? Man, you are easily spooked Our dependence on oil IS a major risk to everyone. Remember why the fuck we give a shit about that region The suffering royal families of the house of Saud and Kuwait my ass Quote
Kiwi Posted August 4, 2003 Posted August 4, 2003 Fence_Sitter said: Kiwi said: My problem with Bush and Iraq is that I don't think he went in there for WMD, Saddam, or to free Iraq's people. please please... tell me you dont think it is oil... No, it's not about the oil. I agree that we should've gone to Iraq, but not for the fabricated BS reasons given by Bush to convince the American public and the international community. I don't know what the reason was, but I'm sure it's not any of the official reasons. I just want a straight answer--the truth. Hell, if they said, 'We don't like the way he smiles', it would've been a good enough reason for me. A lot of 'patriotric' Americans praise this administration for their straight talk, take-no-shit, non-PC approach; but I feel Iraq was one big deception. Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted August 4, 2003 Posted August 4, 2003 Kiwi said: Fence_Sitter said: Kiwi said: My problem with Bush and Iraq is that I don't think he went in there for WMD, Saddam, or to free Iraq's people. please please... tell me you dont think it is oil... No, it's not about the oil. I agree that we should've gone to Iraq, but not for the fabricated BS reasons given by Bush to convince the American public and the international community. I don't know what the reason was, but I'm sure it's not any of the official reasons. I just want a straight answer--the truth. Hell, if they said, 'We don't like the way he smiles', it would've been a good enough reason for me. A lot of 'patriotric' Americans praise this administration for their straight talk, take-no-shit, non-PC approach; but I feel Iraq was one big deception. coo dog Quote
RobBob Posted August 4, 2003 Posted August 4, 2003 (mattp said) However, isn't it a fact that more highly educated and well-read individuals, on average, are more liberal? That doesn't necessarily mean conservatives are stupid -- but of course they are, aren't they? Ignorant rednecks... I think the real answer to matt's question is based on your personality and what you do for a living. People who employ large numbers of people, or who manage large tasks or organizations, or who manage significant capital investments are the "parents" in society---they are responsible for keeping "the railroad running." They tend to be Republican. On the other hand, academics, lawyers, union employees tend to be liberal because they benefit from backing a system of "us" and "them" in which the "us" are the majority, and this majority want to live like children. More time off, more money, more control of other people's stuff---and we want the government to do it all for us. The problem is, there is an end to the government money tit, and to the redistribution-of-wealth-by-lawyering. And unfortunately it requires the conservative "parents" of society to pull us out of the mud, after the children have almost sucked us dry. Quote
Jim Posted August 4, 2003 Posted August 4, 2003 Huh?? Ah the paternal conservatives will take care of all those free-thinking children. Oh that's good. And as far as wealth-redistribution - the conservatives have been doing a fine job of that, and continue to do so under the current administration. But if one points out the continue benefits being laid at the feet of the upper income brackets the conservatives cry "class warfare". Well I guess it is, and they're winning. Quote
RobBob Posted August 4, 2003 Posted August 4, 2003 And as far as wealth-redistribution - the conservatives have been doing a fine job of that, and continue to do so under the current administration. Yep, like that tax check you're about to get. Jim, go back to reading your Hillary biography. Quote
Ratboy Posted August 4, 2003 Posted August 4, 2003 RobBob said:that tax check you're about to get. At what cost? The highest federal deficit in history. There's some conservative fiscal responsibility for ya. Quote
RobBob Posted August 4, 2003 Posted August 4, 2003 Ah the paternal conservatives will take care of all those free-thinking children. At some point you have to make a choice: Are you going to suck McDonalds dry by suing it and regulating it to death, or are you going to work with it and make sure it pays back with employment, commerce, and tax income? Quote
Jim Posted August 4, 2003 Posted August 4, 2003 RobBob said: At some point you have to make a choice: Are you going to suck McDonalds dry by suing it and regulating it to death, or are you going to work with it and make sure it pays back with employment, commerce, and tax income? Hmmm. Another non-sequitur . But I'll try and pick up the discussion for you. The drift of the conservative movement in americia in it's current for is interesting. Conservative used to mean conducting government conservatively - fiscal responsibility, cautious action abroad, and diplomacy before foreign intervention. The current form seems to be opposed to these values, particlularly regarding the burdening of our current economy and future generations with mountains of debt and foreign interventions. It's astonishing how fast we've gone from budget supluses and reduction of the national debt to the current drain on the treasury. I would prefer tax and spend to borrow and spend. And the current tax refund you or I will receive pales in comparison to the breaks of the elite. Bushie and friends included. Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted August 4, 2003 Posted August 4, 2003 how about this... bi-partisan politics is obsolete and it is time to re-think the structure of U.S. politics... but that task is soo daunting that no president or politician is his right mind would try to use thisas his campaign premise... Quote
RobBob Posted August 4, 2003 Posted August 4, 2003 Not a non-sequitur, but perhaps you cannot interprete metaphors. The point is, the current system in which our culture believes that suing large companies is a fair way to compensate "victims" (overeaters, smokers, etc.) and a fair way to regulate corporate America, is bound to come to a screeching halt when those companies can no longer make a reasonable return on investment. The Republican answer is to take care of the economic engines that grow the economy. Maybe they overdo it, I dunno. But you and some of the other bleeding-hearts here are so vituperously left that you cannot for a minute allow yourself to see the big picture---that you are trying to turn the US into another Europe, which hastens the movement of industry and jobs to Asia and Latin America. Quote
Jim Posted August 4, 2003 Posted August 4, 2003 What's with the personal slams all the time? The name calling is silly. This going into major thread creep; I'll pass. Quote
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