Dru Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 tied in with a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnibmilc Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Dru said: daler said: Dru said: 1) the distance from the anchor to the harness is unusable rope if tied in with the rope but usable if on a sling. 2) they may not be at a good spot where they can stop while you take the rope out of the belay device 3) i don't wanna hear about your usable 4" . if you were any good you wouldn't be a washington climber anyhow. You must have not thought it through. The distance from the anchor to the harness is the same if using a knot on the rope to hang from or not. The only difference is the knot. If you are not using the rope as an attachment point to the anchor it still runs down to your harness so this distance is unusable in your book. If your not fast enough to take off the belay at any point you should pratice some more. An essential alpine skill!! No need for the leader to stop! just take them off. one day you will figure out what i'm talking about dru, your point only seems valid on those hardman 50.01 and 60.02 metre pitches you do when you do what it is that you do ON LEAD...and that's only when you're doing it toughie style with no good gear between belays...because if you've got good gear between you...no worries but a little simultaneous climbing which we known you can do when you do what you do. less to do if you just clove hitch the climbing rope into that belay anchor and pretty hard to mess up. plus then you don't have to bring that daisy chain...just a locking carabiner, eh? with that saved weight you could bring a few more of those tasty Tom Horne's doughnuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 gnibmilc said: Dru said: 2) they may not be at a good spot where they can stop while you take the rope out of the belay device don't most belayers notice when the end of the rope is coming and just pull the rope out of the device slightly ahead of time? what if the crux of the pitch is the last few meters to the next ledge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 gnibmilc said: Dru said: daler said: Dru said: 1) the distance from the anchor to the harness is unusable rope if tied in with the rope but usable if on a sling. 2) they may not be at a good spot where they can stop while you take the rope out of the belay device 3) i don't wanna hear about your usable 4" . if you were any good you wouldn't be a washington climber anyhow. You must have not thought it through. The distance from the anchor to the harness is the same if using a knot on the rope to hang from or not. The only difference is the knot. If you are not using the rope as an attachment point to the anchor it still runs down to your harness so this distance is unusable in your book. If your not fast enough to take off the belay at any point you should pratice some more. An essential alpine skill!! No need for the leader to stop! just take them off. one day you will figure out what i'm talking about dru, your point only seems valid on those hardman 50.01 and 60.02 metre pitches you do when you do what it is that you do ON LEAD...and that's only when you're doing it toughie style with no good gear between belays...because if you've got good gear between you...no worries but a little simultaneous climbing which we known you can do when you do what you do. less to do if you just clove hitch the climbing rope into that belay anchor and pretty hard to mess up. plus then you don't have to bring that daisy chain...just a locking carabiner, eh? with that saved weight you could bring a few more of those tasty Tom Horne's doughnuts. if you have to simulclimb it is faster taking down the anchor if you use a daisy than if you use a knot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATT_B Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Sounds like your both splitting hairs over a couple feet of rope. There are advantages and disadvantages in both systems. There are times when one way is beter than the ther but 99% of the time it doesn't matter all that much. If the belay is bomer just shut up and climb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daler Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Duh!! of course if you are belaying direct from the anchor the device needs to autolocking. This is why I mentioned it. It saves so much time as you can eat, stack the rope, prep all the gear for the next pitch etc...... all while bringing up the second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnibmilc Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Dru said: gnibmilc said: Dru said: 2) they may not be at a good spot where they can stop while you take the rope out of the belay device don't most belayers notice when the end of the rope is coming and just pull the rope out of the device slightly ahead of time? what if the crux of the pitch is the last few meters to the next ledge? Then you pull the belayer off their ass/feet/up the wall/into the first bolt/first piece of gear/off a ridge/into a roof/into a traversing fall into corner...just like when simultaneously climbing...but only on those 50.02m and 60.01m pitches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 gnibmilc said: Dru said: gnibmilc said: Dru said: 2) they may not be at a good spot where they can stop while you take the rope out of the belay device don't most belayers notice when the end of the rope is coming and just pull the rope out of the device slightly ahead of time? what if the crux of the pitch is the last few meters to the next ledge? Then you pull the belayer off their ass/feet/up the wall/into the first bolt/first piece of gear/off a ridge/into a roof/into a traversing fall into corner...just like when simultaneously climbing...but only on those 50.02m and 60.01m pitches. or if you are prominent local climber R.F. you make your leader drill a bolt station 1m short of a wicked ledge because you refuse to simulclimb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnibmilc Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 daler said: Duh!! of course if you are belaying direct from the anchor the device needs to autolocking. This is why I mentioned it. It saves so much time as you can eat, stack the rope, prep all the gear for the next pitch etc...... all while bringing up the second. sorry, i'm trying to learn how to climb from this website...i didn't realize that modern=self locking. most people still use atc type devices? the munter works in your scheme except for the lack of true auto lock? or must i carry that reverso or gri-gri....got to go to rei now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 gnibmilc said:i'm trying to learn how to climb from this website I'll notify next of kin. The reverso is nice but if it locks off w/an unconcious second or something like that it's nice to have a game plan to release the device if you need to lower the person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 i have diffrent belay devices for different missons. it all works one way or another. and dale, drul will debate you on no point till the world ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 erik said: i have diffrent belay devices for different missons. it all works one way or another. and when jah loveth and with the grace of baby jesus and lots of green pipeweed the difference between belay devices becomes an illusion just like time and space and bathing u dirty hippy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 ha! fooled you! i bathed this am! i would rather tie into the anchor using just the rope, as it leaves the extra out and makes it nice and neat. tho the dasiy for craggin and i can clean the anchor all quick like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 I must agree with Daler. By tying in with a clove you waste all of about 3 inches of rope (about 8cm for Canadians). Also, if your leader can't hang on whilst you take them off belay for the last 3 feet of rope then they can take a 6 foot longer whipper. Unless I am just misunderstanding you, dru, I cordially disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 texplorer said: I must agree with Daler. By tying in with a clove you waste all of about 3 inches of rope (about 8cm for Canadians). Also, if your leader can't hang on whilst you take them off belay for the last 3 feet of rope then they can take a 6 foot longer whipper. Unless I am just misunderstanding you, dru, I cordially disagree. like there are any full pitches in texas anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 dru, i tell you. it's the way to go: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Hey! It's Bob's climbing rig!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 j_b said: dru, i tell you. it's the way to go: it would work well with my new helmet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Dru said: it would work well with my new helmet That doesn't look UIAA approved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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