Tyler Posted March 23, 2005 Posted March 23, 2005 Despite all the debate it is a fun place to climb You are totally right! Flagstone is wonderful and a special place to me and many others (which is why some people are so concerned about issues of overbolting, etc). But keep it in perspective. Sure, it probably wasn't the wisest place to put a route in, and I probably would have advised the bolter not to put it in there. But this issue pales in comaprison to other issues. What always bothered me the most were the views of old clearcuts, the past "rumors" of chipped routes, and the sound of gunfire during hunting season. Well, Flagstone is in a national forest afterall. Even then, there are much bigger things in the world to be concerned about! Enjoy! Tyler Quote
shapp Posted March 23, 2005 Posted March 23, 2005 No doubt there are more things to be concerned with, but this is a climbing website. I didn't say anthing about chopping bolts or other BS like that. Obviously after reading this long thread, that would accomplish nothing. Fuck off to all the on-line editors as well. Bottom line: if you have to place a bolt closer than your own body length on a slab within spitting distance on either side from more than one established climb, maybe you should rethink drilling a route. Spend your $600 on something else besides a power drill, like maybe a guide to take you out and give you some more climbing experience. The reason I posted was that I have climbed a lot at Flag, although a long time ago. I was surprised to see the photo in the gallery with the bolt line next to the tube. It practically looks like an aid climb from the photos that the other folks posted. It just makes me kind of sad to read through these serveral pages on this thread. If you can't understand this type of feeling then there really is no hope for you. I guess the old days are gone forever. Flagstone was a very special place for me too. I remember the first time we came up to the base and walked around to the right. It was like christmas. The rock seemed so bomber and unlike any other place that I had climbed in Oregon. So much different than the basalt crags or Smith. It defenitley is a nice spot in terms of variety from the standard Smith nubbin vest. It was so much fun launching up some of those routes, without a guide, nor any knowledge of the routes, taking the small run-outs on for what was then an unusual rock type that felt a little uneasy at first. For bolted climbs, the adventure was indeed very good. Quote
willstrickland Posted March 24, 2005 Posted March 24, 2005 http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/plab/showphoto.php?photo=9993&size=big&sort=1&cat=last7 I just came across this photo in the gallery. That is just wrong. Quote
J_Kirby Posted March 24, 2005 Posted March 24, 2005 Holy quickdraws Batman! You could aid that rig. Quote
cranestyle Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 Has anyone heard of perspective? There is a body length and then some between each bolt here. This isn't some kind of bolt ladder. That said, after climbing this route, I think there were too many bolts and didn't use them all (not to mention it's squeezed in.) I just wanted to point out that exaggeration only discredits an argument and pictures don't always tell the truth. Quote
wdietsch Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 Has anyone heard of perspective? There is a body length and then some between each bolt here. maybe if you were a 3 foot tall midget ... this blows I'd like to see who ever put this up go try one of the runouts on the Martian Slab Quote
sk Posted March 26, 2005 Posted March 26, 2005 Has anyone heard of perspective? There is a body length and then some between each bolt here. This isn't some kind of bolt ladder. That said, after climbing this route, I think there were too many bolts and didn't use them all (not to mention it's squeezed in.) I just wanted to point out that exaggeration only discredits an argument and pictures don't always tell the truth. whos body length? arround on the easy slaby side I can clip at my knee wy hip and ky head. and the fact that some one bolted between acne problm and hydrotube is embarassing. that isn't a "line" of anything but bolts. ya sure it is fun and ya it is a still a good place to go and cut your teeth and yep the first bolts i ever clipped where there arround on the easy side. but that doesn't make it right. in all things climbing included there has to be some thought towrds the future. I would hate to see the pracitces at flagstone spread every where. that kind of bolting is not sustainable. I don't think that there should be no bolting but i do believe as a comunity we need to be concerned with our future. Personaly I hope that as my children grow up I hope they love the outdoors. part of that is adventure and wilderness. if the whole world is paved and bolted that feeling of adventure disapears. Quote
skyclimb Posted March 30, 2005 Posted March 30, 2005 I just saw a recent photo in the gallery of Hydrotube. Only 3 short years ago, this thing was bolted conservatively. I remember writing up a TR about it here, as rain fell on the slabs, making the somwhat run-out 5.8 very scary. In fact, one of my first sport climbing partners in Oregon, had this route as his nemesis for awhile. According to him, he took a 20 footer on the first pitch, ripping off copious amounts of skin on the slabs. These were the stories that made hydrotube a "fearsome" 5.8 slab lead for intro climbers, and kept people coming back to a classic line. Now it has been dumbed-down to the level of someone who can't see beyond their drill and the power that brings. Quote
shapp Posted March 30, 2005 Posted March 30, 2005 Amen to Skyclimb, I had several freinds that took some wingers on some of those routes to the right of the tube. Left with a little road rash and battered ego (just cause they could crank 5.11 in the gym, but couldn't get up a 5.10- outside). That road rash just made them aspire to new levels, climb a little harder, focus a little more and control the sewing machine leg. How do you learn to do this on the new routes I see in these pictures. I would by no means have considered any of the older routes as "run-out". Just "sporty" just far enough to make you think about what you were doing. Yeah the bolts were spaced a fair ways apart, but you would'nt be taking like 30 or 40 footers. Like skyclimb said, maybe a 20 footer at the most. Too dam bad. To the new Flagstone route setters, don't come to Darrington! Or let me rephrase that, come on up to Darrington, I am sure we could really show you where to drill your next hole ---- right behind your right ear! to the hilt! Quote
sk Posted April 1, 2005 Posted April 1, 2005 I just saw a recent photo in the gallery of Hydrotube. Only 3 short years ago, this thing was bolted conservatively. I remember writing up a TR about it here, as rain fell on the slabs, making the somwhat run-out 5.8 very scary. In fact, one of my first sport climbing partners in Oregon, had this route as his nemesis for awhile. According to him, he took a 20 footer on the first pitch, ripping off copious amounts of skin on the slabs. These were the stories that made hydrotube a "fearsome" 5.8 slab lead for intro climbers, and kept people coming back to a classic line. Now it has been dumbed-down to the level of someone who can't see beyond their drill and the power that brings. yep. it is totaly sad and so frustrating. Quote
skymeat Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 Last time I went to Flagstone about 3 weeks ago Hydrotube had some new bolts on it, but I didn't think it was over bolted. Older bolts were replaced but I don't think that there were any more bolts than there were five years ago, though there are some loose hangers (whoever did it didn't spend the time/effort to patch the old bolt holes). As for the one on the left of it, it is pointless as well as the other bolt lines on the "beginners Slab". I'm not going to chop those bolts, unless I find myself up there in a bad mood, or am broke and need some hangers. But for the love of god if you are going to make an eye sore like the route next to Hydro or those on the north side spend the extra cash for camo bolts or the time to do it yourself. Thanks Dave and Dee Quote
sk Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 Last time I went to Flagstone about 3 weeks ago Hydrotube had some new bolts on it, but I didn't think it was over bolted. Older bolts were replaced but I don't think that there were any more bolts than there were five years ago, though there are some loose hangers (whoever did it didn't spend the time/effort to patch the old bolt holes). As for the one on the left of it, it is pointless as well as the other bolt lines on the "beginners Slab". I'm not going to chop those bolts, unless I find myself up there in a bad mood, or am broke and need some hangers. But for the love of god if you are going to make an eye sore like the route next to Hydro or those on the north side spend the extra cash for camo bolts or the time to do it yourself. Thanks Dave and Dee eye sore indeed. it is an embarassment. Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 You would, you blurred-out-face liker. Quote
Winter Posted April 8, 2005 Posted April 8, 2005 that was definitely dfa's worst post to date - and there's been some pretty bad ones. Quote
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