The French Coil: Do any of you use it?

[pindude]

OK, everyone learns the Butterfly and Mountaineers Coils, but both of these are limited in the name of speed and efficiency, and especially for lead or alpine climbing. The butterfly is a great coil for a rope used for top-roping only, and the only time I use the mountie coil is as an end-man on glaciers.

 

In 1992, I was taught the French Coil by an experienced Czech climber, and it changed my life (at least in regard to dealing with ropes): no more restacking, less twists, and a lot less time wasted. I've used it almost exclusively since, and am surprised I haven't come across a description or reference of it anywhere, in books or on the net.

 

Sorry I don't have diagrams, but below is a description of how to tie the coil. So, do any of you use it? If so, where did you hear about it and what do you think of it? For those that don't use it, what do you use for a coil? And yeah, it could be renamed because if gives freedom, but I'm sticking with French Coil.

-------------

 

No More Restacking the Rope: The French Coil

 

Now you can save valuable time at the belay. Better than the Mountaineer's Coil or even the Butterfly Coil is the French Coil: it adds no twists to the rope, you can carry it on your back and it feeds like a charm right off the coil--without having to flake it out or stack it--when you uncoil your lead or glacier ropes.

 

You know the Butterfly. Instead of going from rope-middle to the 2 ends, or from the ends to the middle, you'll start at one end of the rope and work toward the other. After you've fed through at least two fully stretched double-armed lengths of one end of the rope, you can start coiling. Hold one hand--your stacking hand--out with palm up and elbow bent at about 90 degrees.

 

Like the Mountaineer's Coil, bring successive coils to rest on top of your stacking hand by using your working hand to (a) grab successive lengths of the rope with a fully outstretched arm, (b) stack each successive length or loop toward the heel of your stacking hand, working eventually out to the fingertips (this is important--it's harder to do if you have smaller hands but it will build up those tendons) and © let the hanging ends twist on themselves if they want to do so (unlike the Mountaineer's Coil)--this avoids adding twists to your precious rope, and it's normal for the rope-bottom of each successive loop to have a twist.

 

When you finally get to the other end of the rope, make sure the length of the tail end matches the length of the beginning end. Then make a couple wraps and tie off as if you would with a Butterfly Coil. Now the next time you unpack the rope, reverse the finishing tie-off and wrap, place the rope flat on the ground one side up or the other, and if you have done it right, the rope will magically feed off without messy tangles! (copyright S. Reynolds)

[allthumbs]

Caveman's part french and he's full of french brown coil.

[cloudrippr]

As a utilty lineman for 18 years, this is how we made-up the handlines when we used 'yacht braid' ropes similar to the kermantle braid ropes. I don't remeber anything about the French other than a lineman from Quebec that I climbed with.

[Wallstein]

Sounds to me like a butterfly. Except coiling from one end to another. This is how i do it and most of the people I climb with. I have never heard it referred to as the FRENCH coil. Fuck the French. They're lame.

 

Their is a way to do this coil that is probably 10 times faster than what was just explained. Coil the rope over the back of your neck, keep each hand holding onto the the end of the loop it just created. Its kinda hard to explain but does the exact same thing and not nearly as pumpy and usually creates a much neater coil.

[Jason_Martin]

I use it pretty regularly... However, I usually still flake the rope because periodically there can be a tangle here or there. Flaking goes much faster though.

 

The double-rope butterfly has the advantage that it coils a lot faster, so when I'm in a hurry I use this.

 

Oh and by the way. You should look at the copyright conversation thread.

 

Jason

[specialed]

Wallstein said:

Their is a way to do this coil that is probably 10 times faster than what was just explained. Coil the rope over the back of your neck, keep each hand holding onto the the end of the loop it just created.

 

Only Canadians and guides do it this way.

[Jason_Martin]

Wallstein said:

Sounds to me like a butterfly. Except coiling from one end to another. This is how i do it and most of the people I climb with. I have never heard it referred to as the FRENCH coil. Fuck the French. They're lame.

 

Their is a way to do this coil that is probably 10 times faster than what was just explained. Coil the rope over the back of your neck, keep each hand holding onto the the end of the loop it just created. Its kinda hard to explain but does the exact same thing and not nearly as pumpy and usually creates a much neater coil.

 

A lot of climbers refer to this as the French Coil. Before ripping on the French, don't forget that alpinism was born in France and some of the best climbing in the world is there as well as many of the best climbers.

 

I sometimes use the over the neck method for both French and double butterfly style coiling. Usually I'll use over the neck when I am pumped out after a climb. Some people with small hands have to use this style because a large MM or sixty meter rope is just too much for them to hold.

 

Jason

[fern]

specialed said:

Only Canadians and guides do it this way.

 

actually maybe only small people do it this way

 

no way I can stack a whole coil into one of my hands.

 

don't forget to put your hood up first if you are coiling a wet rope over your neck ...brrrr....

[snoboy]

Big canadians do it this way to. I like to coil over the neck usually.

 

It sounds like the "French coil" is not a butterfly from one end, as I think he is saying to make coils, not loop back and forth. Maybe I will try it.

[Szyjakowski]

specialed said:

Wallstein said:

Their is a way to do this coil that is probably 10 times faster than what was just explained. Coil the rope over the back of your neck, keep each hand holding onto the the end of the loop it just created.

 

Only Canadians and guides do it this way.

don't forget baby orcas and their bosses.......

[pindude]

Wallstein said:

Sounds to me like a butterfly. Except coiling from one end to another. This is how i do it and most of the people I climb with. I have never heard it referred to as the FRENCH coil. Fuck the French. They're lame.

 

Their is a way to do this coil that is probably 10 times faster than what was just explained. Coil the rope over the back of your neck, keep each hand holding onto the the end of the loop it just created. Its kinda hard to explain but does the exact same thing and not nearly as pumpy and usually creates a much neater coil.

 

Wallstein, you're a young pup, aren't you? It ain't the butterfly...ends are not looped--please re-read the description. One of the biggest advantages of the French Coil is that you don't have to restack it. When you coil over the neck, you DO have to restack it if you want your rope to feed cleanly to a lead climber. It might be faster to coil over your neck when you initially coil, but it defeats the whole purpose of the French Coil, which is to have a rope that doesn't have to be restacked when you're ready to climb again. So the French Coil done on the palm of your hand is indeed faster overall than coiling over your neck, which is not "neat" in my experience when you undo that coil and are ready to lead off again.

[specialed]

pindude said:

Wallstein said:

Sounds to me like a butterfly. Except coiling from one end to another. This is how i do it and most of the people I climb with. I have never heard it referred to as the FRENCH coil. Fuck the French. They're lame.

 

Their is a way to do this coil that is probably 10 times faster than what was just explained. Coil the rope over the back of your neck, keep each hand holding onto the the end of the loop it just created. Its kinda hard to explain but does the exact same thing and not nearly as pumpy and usually creates a much neater coil.

 

Wallstein, you're a young pup, aren't you? It ain't the butterfly...ends are not looped--please re-read the description. One of the biggest advantages of the French Coil is that you don't have to restack it. When you coil over the neck, you DO have to restack it if you want your rope to feed cleanly to a lead climber. It might be faster to coil over your neck when you initially coil, but it defeats the whole purpose of the French Coil, which is to have a rope that doesn't have to be restacked when you're ready to climb again. So the French Coil done on the palm of your hand is indeed faster overall than coiling over your neck, which is not "neat" in my experience when you undo that coil and are ready to lead off again.

 

Yeah Wallstein doesn't have much experience climbing or anything, and he really needs to work on his footwork too

[pindude]

Jason_Martin said:

I use it pretty regularly... However, I usually still flake the rope because periodically there can be a tangle here or there. Flaking goes much faster though.

 

The double-rope butterfly has the advantage that it coils a lot faster, so when I'm in a hurry I use this.

 

Oh and by the way. You should look at the copyright conversation thread.

 

Jason

 

Thanks, Jason, glad to know I'm not alone in the PNW as far as using this coil. I was starting to wonder. I find I don't have tangles if I'm real careful when feeding the rope onto the palm of my hand when coiling. Thanks for the copyright info...I threw that in at the end for whatever it's worth.

 

--Steve

[pindude]

fern said:

specialed said:

Only Canadians and guides do it this way.

 

actually maybe only small people do it this way

 

no way I can stack a whole coil into one of my hands.

 

don't forget to put your hood up first if you are coiling a wet rope over your neck ...brrrr....

 

Yeah, the French Coil is real hard to do for those with small hands, especially women. One way to try and alleviate it is to push the stack back along the wrist as you're nearing the end of the coil, but it's still sometimes a lot of weight to hold up for smaller people. My experience with neck-stacking is that I always have to reflake the rope after uncoiling.

 

[pindude]

specialed said:

Yeah Wallstein doesn't have much experience climbing or anything, and he really needs to work on his footwork too

 

I don't mean any disrespect to Wallstein's climbing abilities or his footwork, whatever they may be. It was obvious he didn't read the original description through very carefully, in addition to never having experienced this coil (and having a special love for the French). 'Sokay, if you're indeed young Wallstein, there's lots of time for you.

 

Cheers, pindude

 

[fern]

pindude said:

Yeah, the French Coil is real hard to do for those with small hands, especially women.

 

why the especially women? what makes our small hands more special than men's small hands?

 

My experience with neck-stacking is that I always have to reflake the rope after uncoiling.

 

I don't have this problem. Just unwind the tie-off and unfold the butterfly and lay it on the ground. You must be suck. Glad you found a system that works.

[Sphinx]

fern said:

pindude said:

Yeah, the French Coil is real hard to do for those with small hands, especially women.

 

 

why the especially women? what makes our small hands more special than men's small hands?

 

My experience with neck-stacking is that I always have to reflake the rope after uncoiling.

 

I don't have this problem. Just unwind the tie-off and unfold the butterfly and lay it on the ground. You must be suck. Glad you found a system that works.

Most women have smaller hands than men. Hence, a small-handed woman will generally have smaller hands than a small-handed man.

 

[specialed]

pindude said:

'Sokay, if you're indeed young Wallstein, there's lots of time for you.

 

[pindude]

fern said:

pindude said:

Yeah, the French Coil is real hard to do for those with small hands, especially women.

 

why the especially women? what makes our small hands more special than men's small hands?

 

My experience with neck-stacking is that I always have to reflake the rope after uncoiling.

 

I don't have this problem. Just unwind the tie-off and unfold the butterfly and lay it on the ground. You must be suck. Glad you found a system that works.

 

I must be suck? <Big sigh> I try to be gracious, and this is where it gets me.

 

Seriously, I merely meant women's hands tend to run smaller than men's. I'd like to see how you do your coiling over your neck such that it feeds off without tangling--that's something I could learn.

 

I think I'll never understand women... But I'm not going to ask advice from Trask, at least not yet.

[Wallstein]

pin-

I never have a problem with the rope feeding for a leader when I coil it over my neck and lay it flat. I think we are really talking about the same method but one is supported by the palm of your and and the other is supported by the back of the neck. I drape the rope over my neck with a dog ear on each side. Not a big loop around my neck. I will coil a rope in my palm when my shoulders are tired and vice versa. I probably coiled around 1000 (no exageration) ropes last year and have found the over the neck to be the quickest method and cleanest feading. But I probably need more practice since I am so young and youth always means incopetence. Well I go back to work on friday and get to practice my rope coiling for the next 6 months while guiding in yosemite. Hopefully I will have it all figured out by then and we can have a rope coiling competition at the next cc.com bbq.

[Retrosaurus]

We found a couple of French coils beside our car on the icefield parkway after finishing Polar Circus. Mark stepped in one of them and then spent 15 minutes scouring with sticks and snow to get it out of the cleats in his mtn boots before he could get into the car.

Fuking French

[fern]

pindude said:

I think I'll never understand women...

 

 

my work here is done!

 

this is a fun thread. badly coiled ropes peeve me.

[EWolfe]

It is now called the "Freedom Coil", for your information...

[catbirdseat]

After re-reading your description, I'm clear on the fact that this is not a butterfly variation, but indeed a coil. The key difference between the French Coil and Mountaineer coil is the twists. In a Mountaineer coil, you put one twist in the rope for each coil so that the coils lay perfectly flat and circular. In a French coil, you make no attempt to do this. The coils want to twist into a figure eight pattern.

 

We used to always coil our spinnaker and jib sheets on sailboats this way so that there would be no twists when the rope is in use. Under certain conditions these twists could work their way together until they result in a kink that is variously termed a "hockel" or an "asshole", which often results in a CF.

 

For climbing, I prefer to use the butterfly coiled from one end of the rope to the other (not from both ends, which is stupid). If done carefully, one can simply lay the coil on the ground and it will pay out without snarls. I still prefer to flake the rope, even so.

[Retrosaurus]

I am so stupid. I use the butterfly coil (from either both ends or the middle ,which ever is handier). I never restack the rope but by keeping a finger between the strands as I feed the coil so that they stay parallel in the coil rather than wrapping around each other and unwrapping and laying out the coil carefully, making sure not to start out with the strands wrapped around each other, I very rarely have tangles. I will stop doing this immediately and use Catbird's technique because that way it will take twice as long.