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dryad

Hey mountie bashers

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RuMR said:

Fence_Sitter said:

and by the way...i thought you were leaving!?!? addictive aint it? wave.gif

worse than my crack smokin' daze!!! wazzup.gif

 

Plus i'm scared to turn my back on you...might get kicked in the moon.gif

 

better than turning yuor back on DFA if ya know what i mean.... smileysex5.gif

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RuMR said:

Sphinx said:

Actually, she tied in with a bowline.

 

No...she did not! It was an incomplete 8...

 

Bzzzzt...

 

"I began by threading the finger-thick nylon strand of rope through my harness with the intention of tying a knot called the bowline, a maritime knot which sailors prize for its stength. But instead of finishing my knot, I decided to walk over to where I left my climbing shoes on the ground about twenty feet away." ...

 

From "My Life in the Vertical World" (page 4, para. 4) by Lynn Hill

 

Use whatever knot you're happy with and tie it well. Isn't that what matters most?

 

And double-check your partner. Jeez.

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I find all this horseshit about a bowline being a bad knot to be crap. Give me a fucking break, the bowline properly tied and backed up is a killer knot. The sailor's got it goin' on. Nitwits.

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That is an error in the book, which she did not write, Greg Child did...I can absolutely guarantee you that she's tying in w/ a DBB knot as of 2 years ago, since i witnessed it.

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Hey everybody! RuMR wishes you all to know that he has been up close to Ms. Hill and checked out her knot.

 

If you don't finish tying your <insert name of preferred knot here> knot and you fall and hurt yourself, do you abandon that knot in the future? OR do you strive to never make the mistake of forgetting to finish your knot?

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HAHAHAHA...you got me, that was an intentional name drop rolleyes.gif... hahaha.gifhahaha.gifyelrotflmao.gif

 

...she used to live in bend and was at smith all of the time. At the base of the usual Churning queue that forms in the evening she was carrying on a conversation w/ the crowd milling there about the "knot" issue...and it was plain to see what knot she was tying in with.

 

And no, you can't partially tie a bowline...it is either tied or it isn't...you can, however, partially tie an eight... fruit.gif

 

Caveat: This was more like 4 years ago...not 2, so if my memory is suspect regarding the time, than feel free to suspect for the rest of my "facts"

 

Edited by RuMR

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i can get witnesses...and DFA can provide the gps coordinates...Does that count??

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YEAH RUMR CANT BE FULL OF THAT MUCH SHIT, HE JUST DOESNT HAVE THE CAPACITY BEING SO SHORT!

 

bigdrink.gif

 

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erik said:

YEAH RUMR CANT BE FULL OF THAT MUCH SHIT, HE JUST DOESNT HAVE THE CAPACITY BEING SO SHORT!

 

bigdrink.gif

 

ahhh...but i'm a fat f'er!! Volume is the same...

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RuMR said:

erik said:

YEAH RUMR CANT BE FULL OF THAT MUCH SHIT, HE JUST DOESNT HAVE THE CAPACITY BEING SO SHORT!

 

bigdrink.gif

 

ahhh...but i'm a fat f'er!! Volume is the same...

 

hahaha.gif

 

IN THAT CASE I COULD PROLLY FERTALIZE ALL OF THE MIDWEST NEXT SPRING!

 

 

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RuMR said:

 

And no, you can't partially tie a bowline...it is either tied or it isn't...you can, however, partially tie an eight...

 

Point of clarification, the book only says that she intended to tie the bowline, not that she started and didn't finish. She continues later with:

 

"I had poked the rope into the loop in my harness, but, distracted by the actions of fetching my rock shoes..., I had not tied the knot. The end of the rope hung at my waist, hidden underneath my jacket, like a ticking time bomb. Neither I nor anyone else at the cliff noticed my potentially fatal mistake."

 

The rope never dropped from her harness while she climbed, and when leaned back at the top, she fell.

 

Sure, she probably does use the same knot, only never forgets to check now. And if you can get those GPS coordinates along with notarized affadavits, I'll believe ya. hahaha.gif

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mtngrrrl said:

RuMR said:

 

And no, you can't partially tie a bowline...it is either tied or it isn't...you can, however, partially tie an eight...

 

Point of clarification, the book only says that she intended to tie the bowline, not that she started and didn't finish. She continues later with:

 

"I had poked the rope into the loop in my harness, but, distracted by the actions of fetching my rock shoes..., I had not tied the knot. The end of the rope hung at my waist, hidden underneath my jacket, like a ticking time bomb. Neither I nor anyone else at the cliff noticed my potentially fatal mistake."

 

The rope never dropped from her harness while she climbed, and when leaned back at the top, she fell.

 

Sure, she probably does use the same knot, only never forgets to check now. And if you can get those GPS coordinates along with notarized affadavits, I'll believe ya. hahaha.gif

my guess is she'll visit seattle/PNW sometime soon w/ a slideshow...how's 'bout we ask her and loser buys winner a bigdrink.gif??? Deal?

 

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Sure, if you stand up and ask her and she says the book was wrong, I'll buy you a beer. Who knows, maybe you'll uncover some scandalous cover up from the secretive Bowline Bashing Society who used their weighty influence to change the story from a fig-8 to a bowline right before the book went to print.

 

bigdrink.gif

 

Now that we have that settled, back to Mountie Bashing and Newbie Adopting.

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as a sideline although not proof of the knot she was using:

 

 

 

 

From the SARBC web site discussion forum at http:// www. sarbc.org

Subject:Figure 8's vs. Bowlines (and cousin), Mar 4 1999

From: Reed Thorne (one of the industry leaders)

 

I am compelled to take issue with a couple of comments on this site concerning bowlines vs. figure 8's. Over the years, we have used both the bowline and figure eight family knots and bends and have not found the recently-stated conclusions to be true. First of all, I am an avid user of both figure eights and bowlines and each of these has different advantages and disadvantages to offer the user. I have to take issue with the point about figure 8 knots or bends being easier to tie, and inspect, than bowlines, or sheet bends. This type of commentary is very disturbing to say the least. In several noted instances in the time I have been teaching this subject in Arizona State Fire Marshal rope courses since the early eighties, I have seen with my own eyes, those that do not complete the retrace on Figure 8 follow through knots. In one instance, several people standing around did not note the error either. This is referred to in my vocabulary as the "Hill syndrome" with rewoven bends or knots. This is where the person tying the connection, begins the retrace, and then, for whatever reason (distraction, nervousness, etc.), does not complete it. To many novice rescuers, the problem is apparently masked in that it appears to be tied perfectly---even though the final rewoven loop is left to the side and not "finished." Even so-called professionals or experts are making this mistake. I have been told that the famous rock climber, Lynn Hill, was "distracted" several years ago while tying into her climbing rope with a rewoven figure 8 knot. The knot "looked" finished, and had enough residual friction in the unfinished connection to hold it in place, even while Lynn climbed on lead for the length of her rope. Of course after the successful climb, the story goes, she leaned on the rope to be lowered to the ground by her belayer. The knot, now unable to hold her body weight, slipped through and she fell into the tree next to her belayer, narrowly escaping a fatal fall! My point? ANY knot can be tied incorrectly---and, unfortunately---this includes the figure 8 rewoven knot or bend. This is a very good argument for backing up these connections. In Lynn's case, this would have prevented the problem of an unfinished connection. Interesting thing about bowlines and the sheet bends, as "cousins", is that they "fall apart" if you tie them improperly. This is one reason we like them. The student ties it wrong and it falls apart. Simple. Also, I can tell at a glance if a bowline is tied correctly. Isn't this a training issue? We are so used to bowlines and sheet bends that it is the figure 8's we have problems with. If you say that the figure 8 is used more than the bowline (family), I will grant that this statement is probably true. But that is not an argument for the figure 8's use. We could say the same thing about ANY practice. There is allot more on the subject of knotcraft which remains to be said, but I will reserve my comments for a later time--hopefully on this venue.

 

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The solution is to get into the habit of always showing your belayer your tie-in knot. I know it may not seem very cool or whatnot, but it could save your life. I once led a pitch without my harness being doubled back. Had I fallen, I likely would have come out of my harness. Now my belayer and I always check one another.

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catbirdseat said:

The solution is to get into the habit of always showing your belayer your tie-in knot. I know it may not seem very cool or whatnot, but it could save your life.

The way to make it cool is to say, "check out my package" when you're flashing your partner your tie in. hahaha.gif

 

I once led a pitch without my harness being doubled back. Had I fallen, I likely would have come out of my harness.

ARE YOU NUTS!!?! YOU COULDA DIED!! Didn't you read the instruction manual that came with your harness before using it! I think FOTH says something about doubling back your harness too. bigdrink.gif

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the key is to wear a second, backup harness over your initial harness. this prevents such silly mistakes.

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copious amounts of steel locking biners prevents cross-loading accidents and helps the economy to boot. go steelers.

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iain said:

the key is to wear a second, backup harness over your initial harness. this prevents such silly mistakes.

No, but I have heard of some old timers who still don't trust their sewn harnesses and wear a swami belt as a backup.

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iain said:

the key is to wear a second, backup harness over your initial harness. this prevents such silly mistakes.

No, but I have heard of some old timers who still don't trust their sewn harnesses and wear a swami belt as a backup.

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