Mounties and WAC climbing the Tooth this weekend

[ctuller]

"ON BELAY!" "OK!" "NO, JOHN, THE PROPER RESPONSE IS 'BELAY ON'!" "OK, BELAY ON!" "NO, JUST SAY 'BELAY ON'!" "BELAY ON"! Etc....

That's fuq'n hilarious. I heard a similar thing once too from a group doing an intro class.

[Ursa_Eagle]

So Alpinfox, again, I'm sure you got off the couch and did Liberty Ridge safely. You never had to learn anything.

 

[minx]

Ursa_Eagle said:

chucK said:

I went to this really popular often-crowded place this one time. We walked through this crowd of people and ended up climbing something they had been climbing on before. They didn't stop us. Later this guy from the group came up and talked to us.

 

F**KIN F**K F**K F**K Can you believe that crap!!!

 

What bastards! I think we should slam them for not being climbing gods like us!

 

I don't think anybody posting is thinking that. I certainly am not opposed to anybody learning to climb with or with out the help of an organization. Aren't we all still learning something?

I think what hacks off most people is the attitude. I doubt many people care what these groups do when the invade a closed ski area.

 

Too often it's not an area like this. Its a crag or a route that is fequented by lots of people. A large group can ruin this for other people.

 

In addition there is an attitude of that seem somewhat prevalent with the mountaineers that many people find irritating. Any way other than theirs is wrong, no one but them is safe enough and everyone should join. Encountering this on a trip just sux. It's the attitude as much as anything some find disturbing.

[Ursa_Eagle]

I'm not seeing Alpinfox and Sloth_Man with a much different attitude

[Alpinfox]

Ursa_Eagle said:

1. You saw them coming off the ski area, not on the tooth.

2. You ridicule them for wearing gore-tex and plastic boots: If you're going to be learning basic snow techniques, you won't be moving all day long, so you need to wear more clothes.

3. A 70 lb pack? Did you weight it? Are you sure you didn't exaggerate at all?

4. You made the assumption they are the mounties, what proof do you have?

 

In your defense: you did ask for confirmation, but not before bashing.

 

Now this is my question for you Alpinfox: how many newbies have you taken up and shown how to climb?

 

True, I saw them coming down the ski area and assumed they were coming from Das Toof. Not such a strange assumption...

 

True, I ridicule them for overdressing because they are following a formula, not thinking for themselves. The Mountaineer's logic seems to be, "If there is snow anywhere in the vicinity, I need triple-layer-goretex and plastic boots or I run the risk of hypothermia. No matter that I am sweating like a pig, snow=goretex."

 

I didn't weigh his pack. That's why I said:

Judging from the size of their packs , they must have been returning from a 6-day siege of Das Toof. I swear this one guy's pack must have weighed 70lbs!

It might have weighed less, but it was friggin' huge. Bigger than any pack I've carried on a two-week winter climbing trip. Seriously.

 

Apparently they were mounties (someone said they were up there doing a basic snow course or whatever), so I was correct in that assumption too, but even if they weren't they were still a bunch of wankers for being in such a big group.

 

I don't have a problem with newbies trying out their skills in safe environments. But roped travel down a ski slope seems a little pedantic (I looked that word up cuz I'm stupid).

 

 

I've taken lots of newbies out into the mountains. I've even done some guiding (in small, unobstrusive groups I might add).

 

Thanks for allowing me to clarify myself Ursa.

 

 

[chucK]

 

Too funny Lammy

[cracked]

About overdressing in the snow: it is very common. A few weeks ago when I skied Great Scott Bowl, it was snowing hard when we started up. But it was way warm. I was overheating too much, so I skinned up without a shirt on. All the people coming down, dressed in fleece and goretex looked at me like I was an alien. It's amazing what preconceptions people carry around. I never wore more than a light windshirt (no base layer, even!) that day, and was still too hot. It's not ONLY the mounties...

[specialed]

chucK said:

 

Too funny Lammy

 

Those are cool. Sometimes when I just want to grab a hold of the rope too and see where everyone's going.

 

I mean, shit, what's cooler than a field trip!!

[proper]

I get out just about every weekend either climbing or skiing (depending on the season) and I never run into the WAC's, Mountaineers, Mazamas, or any other kind of organized group. Why do those, that hate the 'groups' climb where they climb? There is SO much out there. And those that bitch the most claim they have superior experience to the 'group' climbers. If so, why do you climb where they climb? I believe 'basic climbs' of these groups are climbed in mountaineering boots. Is that all you can do? If so, perhaps you should try a little harder route or grade. I bet you'll never run into them again. If you want to stick at the basic level it doesn't take much effort to find stuff they don't go to...and it's probably much better!

[Alpinfox]

proper said:

I get out just about every weekend either climbing or skiing (depending on the season) and I never run into the WAC's, Mountaineers, Mazamas, or any other kind of organized group. Why do those, that hate the 'groups' climb where they climb? There is SO much out there. And those that bitch the most claim they have superior experience to the 'group' climbers. If so, why do you climb where they climb? I believe 'basic climbs' of these groups are climbed in mountaineering boots. Is that all you can do? If so, perhaps you should try a little harder route or grade. I bet you'll never run into them again.

 

Here is a list of all the places the Mountaineers do their basic climbs:

Adams/Mazama Gl 2 BG 3/3 ---JA-- Trout Lake 360-395-3400

Anderson/Anderson Gl 2 BA 1/4 -MJJA-- Hoodsport 360-877-5254

Baker/Boulder Gl 2 BG 3/3 --JJ--- Marblemount 360-873-4500

Baker/Coleman Gl 2 BG 3/3 --JJA-- Glacier 360-599-2714

Baker/Easton Gl 2 BG 3/3 --JJA-- Marblemount 360-873-4500

Brothers/S Couloir 1 BA 1/2 AMJJASO Hoodsport 360-877-5254

Cathedral Rock/SW Face 1 BR 2/1 --JJASO Cle Elum 509-674-4411

Clark/Walrus Gl 2 BG 2/4 --JJA-- Wenatchee 509-763-3103

Corteo Peak/SW Ridge 2 BA 2/3 --JJASO Marblemount 360-873-4500

Cruiser/SW Corner 2 BR 2/3 --JJASO Hoodsport 360-877-5254

Cutthroat/W Ridge 1 BR 2/1 --JJASO Marblemount 360-873-4500

Daniel/Lynch Gl 2 BG 2/2 --JJA-- Cle Elum 509-674-4411

Dome Peak/Dome Gl 3 BG 2/5 ---JAS- Darrington 360-436-1155

Dragontail/Colchuck Col 2 BA 2/2 -MJJA-- Leavenworth 509-548-6977

Eldorado Pk/Inspiration Gl 2 BG 2/3 ---JAS- Marblemount 360-873-4500

Fin/NE Ridge 1 BR 2/2 -MJJAS- Marblemount 360-873-4500

Foggy Peak/N Ridge 2 BR 2/2 ---JAS- Verlot 360-691-7791

Garibaldi (E)/E Face 2 BG 3/3 AMJ---- Garibaldi 250-898-3678

Glacier Peak/Kennedy Gl 3 BG 3/5 --JJA-- Darrington 360-436-1155

Glacier Peak/Sitkum Gl 2 BG 2/4 --JJAS- Darrington 360-436-1155

Glacier Peak/Vista Gl 3 BG 3/5 --JJA-- Darrington 360-436-1155

Guye Peak/W Face 1 BR 2/1 -MJJASO North Bend 425-888-1421

High Priest/N Face 2 BR 4/3 --JJASO Leavenworth 509-548-6977

Hood/Cooper Spur 2 BG 3/2 -MJJ--- ZigZag 503-622-3191

Hood/S Side 1 BG 2/1 -MJ---- ZigZag 503-622-3191

Icy/W Route 2 BA 2/3 --JJAS- Glacier 360-599-2714

Ingalls/S Face 1 BR 2/2 --JJASO Cle Elum 509-674-4411

Ingalls/SW Face 1 BR 1/2 --JJASO Cle Elum 509-674-4411

Jefferson/Whitewater Gl 3 BG 3/3 --JJA-- Detroit 503-854-3366

Kangaroo Temple/N Face 1 BR 4/2 -MJJASO Marblemount 360-873-4500

Little Tahoma/E Shoulder 2 BG 3/3 --JJA-- White River 360-569-2211x2356

Logan/Banded Gl 3 BG 3/5 --JJA-- Marblemount 360-873-4500

Logan/Fremont Gl 3 BA 2/4 --JJAS- Marblemount 360-873-4500

Lundin/W Ridge 1 BR 2/1 -MJJASO North Bend 425-888-1421

Mixup/E Face 2 BR 4/4 ---JAS- Marblemount 360-873-4500

Monte Cristo/N Col 2 BA 2/2 --JJA-- Verlot 360-691-7791

N Twin Sister/W Ridge 1 BA 1/2 -MJJASO Marblemount 360-873-4500

Olympus/Blue Gl 3 BG 3/5 -MJJA-- Hoh 360-374-6925

Rainier/Emmons Gl 2 BG 4/5 --JJA-- White RIver 360-825-6585

Rainier/DC 2 BG 4/5 --JJA-- Paradise 360-569-2211x2314

Ruth-Icy/Traverse 2 BG 2/3 ---JASO Glacier 360-599-2714

S Early Winter/S Arete 1 BR 2/1 -MJJASO Marblemount 360-873-4500

Sahale/Quien Sabe Gl 2 BG 2/3 ---JAS- Marblemount 360-873-4500

Sahale/S Slope 1 BA 1/3 ---JASO Marblemount 360-873-4500

Sharkfin Tower/E Face 2 BR 2/3 ---JAS- Marblemount 360-873-4500

Sherpa/S Route 2 BA 2/4 ---JAS- Cle Elum 509-674-4411

Shuksan/Fisher Chimneys 2 BG 4/4 ---JA-- Glacier 360-599-2714

Shuksan/Sulphide Gl 2 BG 2/3 --JJA-- Glacier 360-599-2714

SilpperySlabTwr/NE Face 1 BR 2/2 -MJJASO Skykomish 360-677-2414

Silverstar/Silverstar Gl 1 BA 2/1 -MJJAS- Marblemount 360-873-4500

Sloan Peak/Corkscrew 2 BA 2/2 ---JAS- Darrington 360-436-1155

Snowfield Peak/Neve Gl 2 BG 2/3 --JJA-- Marblemount 360-873-4500

Snowking/NE Shoulder 2 BA 1/3 -MJJAS- Marblemount 360-873-4500

Stuart/Cascadian Couloir 2 BA 2/4 ---JAS- Cle Elum 509-674-4411

Temple/W Side 2 BR 3/3 ---JAS- Leavenworth 509-548-6977

Three Fingers/W route 2 BR 3/3 ---JAS- Verlot 360-691-7791

Tom (E)/White Gl 3 BG 3/5 -MJJA-- Hoh 360-374-6925

Tooth/S Face 1 BR 3/2 AMJJASO North Bend 425-888-1421

Unicorn/S Side 1 BA 1/1 --JJASO Longmire 360-569-2211x3314

Warrior/SE Summit 1 BA 2/2 -MJJAS- Quilcene 360-765-2200

Whitehorse/NW Shoulder 1 BA 2/3 AMJ---- Darrington 360-436-1155

Wedge/W Ridge 3 BG 1/3 -MJJ--- Garibaldi 250-898-3678

Witch's Tower/SW corner 2 BR 1/3 --JJAS- Leavenworth 509-548-6977

Yellowjacket Twr/E Flank

 

 

 

You're right. I'll just avoid all of these areas. Like Rainier, Baker, Shuksan, Leavenworth, Stuart, etc.

 

Great idea.

 

 

[Ursa_Eagle]

Alpinfox said:

True, I ridicule them for overdressing because they are following a formula, not thinking for themselves. The Mountaineer's logic seems to be, "If there is snow anywhere in the vicinity, I need triple-layer-goretex and plastic boots or I run the risk of hypothermia. No matter that I am sweating like a pig, snow=goretex."

 

I don't have a problem with newbies trying out their skills in safe environments. But roped travel down a ski slope seems a little pedantic (I looked that word up cuz I'm stupid).

 

I've taken lots of newbies out into the mountains. I've even done some guiding (in small, unobstrusive groups I might add).

 

When I teach newbies off the parking lot of Timberline, I wear clothes like that. I find that I will be standing around often, and I'll use my goretex. My feet get cold easily, so I wear plastic boots too. These people may very well have been thinking for themselves. If you're going to be standing around learning about snow anchors, what kind of clothes should you wear? Just because they have their goretex on doesn't mean they're mindless drones.

 

If you don't have a problem with people learning skills in safe environments, why are you bashing these people? If you haven't used ropes before, it can be really confusing. I like to think that they would have learned about it in a warm, dry environment before doing it outside, but there is valuable learning experience to be had by doing ropework (even if it's on easy terrain) outside, preferably in bad weather.

 

I would get into Guiding vs. Mounties, but that should be another thread entirely... (I don't have a problem with guiding)

[Attitude]

Sloth_Man said:

When we get bored there I notice a rope has been hanging on the flake thingy unused for some time. So I wander over there and find somebody who looks like a 'leader' (they're easy to spot) I say nicely "are you guys done with that climb, because I'd like to lead it and toprope my son up it". The response is "I don't know let me ask joe" (or whoever). So they go wandering over to the other side of the road to find joe and see if I'll get permission to do the climb. They come back and say 'yeah we're done with it'. So I lead toprope the kid up it and top rope the 5.8 crack next to it. We pull the rope and are getting ready to leave when some 'leader' dude who looks like a fricken cop walks by and say's "I see you got on your route. I heard you talking ealier". To this I have no response other than to look at him with spite.

Let's see....

 

They had a toprope on a pitch they weren't using, so you asked if they were finished. The guy checked with someone else and found out that they were finished. You climbed the pitch a couple times, and as you were leaving , someone else came by and chatted with you.

 

So you're pissed off from the experience.

 

And they have the attitude.

[proper]

Alpinfox said: "You're right. I'll just avoid all of these areas. Like Rainier, Baker, Shuksan, Leavenworth, Stuart, etc."

 

These are quite large mountains/areas. I find it hard to believe that group of basic group climbers would be taking up all the routes. If you can't see beyond the 'basic climbs' on these mountains/areas then all I can suggest is that you try and look beyond what they climb. There is SO much out there.

[dryad]

"You're right. I'll just avoid all of these areas. Like Rainier, Baker, Shuksan, Leavenworth, Stuart, etc."

 

That list is a list of all the climbs recognized by the mounties as basic-level climbs, not the ones that will be climbed at any given time. In reality, most basic trips go to the same dozen or so places again and again. Lack of leader imagination, I suppose.

[Alasdair]

There are SO many shitty stories about the mountaineers, that I tend to believe that they are in fact the problem not the people who are complaining about them. I have no problem with the students in the class, and never have. It is the attitude of the fuck wad class leaders which is the problem. I have twice ran in to groups of mounties on climbs and both times the leader was a total prick. Note these were Everett Mountaineers. It seems that there are way too many stories of dick head group leaders for it to all be in the imagination. Or maybe we are all just making these stories up.

[dryad]

There certainly are leaders in the mounties who are total pricks. Maybe they just stick out more than the nice ones.

[chucK]

dryad said:

In reality, most basic trips go to the same dozen or so places again and again. Lack of leader imagination, I suppose.

 

More like lack of leader idiocy. C'mon! The leader is shepherding 8 newbies, 2 of which are guaranteed to be clueless, up this thing. Don't you think it might be a good idea for the leader to know the proposed climb inside and out?

[Alpinfox]

proper said:

Alpinfox said: "You're right. I'll just avoid all of these areas. Like Rainier, Baker, Shuksan, Leavenworth, Stuart, etc."

 

These are quite large mountains/areas. I find it hard to believe that group of basic group climbers would be taking up all the routes. If you can't see beyond the 'basic climbs' on these mountains/areas then all I can suggest is that you try and look beyond what they climb. There is SO much out there.

 

I was kidding... sort of. The Mounties can usually be avoided by staying away from Alpental valley on weekends. They are not frequently encountered elsewhere. However, the potential exists to get to the really cool climb of your choice and find a group of 20 Mounties saddling up. This has happened to me a couple of times and its really annoying.

 

The point is that the mountains do in fact belong to all of us and we should all strive to have a minimal impact on those areas. This goes beyond not leaving candy wrappers lying around and not stomping down alpine meadows. It means we should also try to go into the mountains in SMALL GROUPS and be QUIET and try to disturb the area as little as possible. I don't think the Mountaineers grasp the full extent of the minimal impact philosophy.

 

On a very different note, how do I embed a photo in my post? i.e., NOT an attachment?

 

[mattp]

Damn right, ChucK. It is generally a poor idea to take a large group of inexperienced climbers up a route that you haven't got completely figured out. At the worst it could be dangerous, at best they will all be standing around while you figure out where you are going to set your belays.

[dryad]

chucK said:

dryad said:

In reality, most basic trips go to the same dozen or so places again and again. Lack of leader imagination, I suppose.

 

More like lack of leader idiocy. C'mon! The leader is shepherding 8 newbies, 2 of which are guaranteed to be clueless, up this thing. Don't you think it might be a good idea for the leader to know the proposed climb inside and out?

Well, yeah, obviously, but I would think there are leaders out there have done more climbs than the few that are posted all the time. Maybe not. Whatever. My only point was that if someone wanted to avoid mounties, you don't really have to go all that far out of the way to do it.

[Ursa_Eagle]

Alpinfox said:

Hood/S Side 1 BG 2/1 -MJ---- ZigZag 503-622-3191

Rainier/DC 2 BG 4/5 --JJA-- Paradise 360-569-2211x2314

 

I'm sure a mountie group will ruin your otherwise solitary presense on these routes...

[Alpinfox]

Ursa_Eagle said:

Alpinfox said:

Hood/S Side 1 BG 2/1 -MJ---- ZigZag 503-622-3191

Rainier/DC 2 BG 4/5 --JJA-- Paradise 360-569-2211x2314

 

I'm sure a mountie group will ruin your otherwise solitary presense on these routes...

 

Geeez Ursa. Way to point out the obvious. Is that the best you can do? Your attempts to bash me haven't worked out so you pick a couple of needles out of the haystack and try to poke me with them?

 

Bahahaha!

 

OF COURSE those two routes are crowded even without the M's, but on a lot of the routes on that list a climber would reasonably expect some solitude.

 

If you want to try to defend the mounties, you're going to have to do better than that.

 

MOUNTIES SUCK!

 

[Ursa_Eagle]

those are just two of the MANY popular routes on that list. I was just using those as examples. A single group of mounties on lots of those routes ain't gonna make a bit of difference. If you don't climb DC (or any of those other routes) because you're afraid mounties are going to be there, I don't need to bash you, you've already done so yourself.

[Sloth_Man]

The fact that some you (perhaps mounties yourselves) feel the need to ridicule my own opinions shows the very attitude that is so objectionable, and that you yourselves seem to be busy complaining about.

 

A more mature response would be "hey we really do annoy a lot of people it seems. Maybe next time we shouldn't take over a whole area."

 

I don't give a rats ass if you guy's want to go toprope the same shit year after year. But since I have an opinion on this, I thought if you cared about your impact on the rest of us you might be interested.

 

But just like the typical mountie 'leader' you guys have to act like I'm insulting your penis size or something.

 

The fact is that large groups bother me. Get it fuck heads, large groups bother me. I don't care if their mounties or loc's or what. But the mounties are the biggest perpetrators.

 

Anyway, I'm outa this thread. I tried to explain what was so annoying about you guys in a reasonable way and got childish and weak grade school comebacks, and no acknoledgment of the validity of the issue or my feelings about it. Typical of mounties to not give a crap what anybody else thinks, and thus the root of the problem and where I started in this "mounties suck".

 

But just in case you're not mounties and there is some hope for you to become climbers let me relate the ethics of climbing in crowded places. Lead, follow, move on. Nobody should have to ask you to remove your rope.

 

If you are slow let others pass.

 

Don't climb in crowded areas with more than four people.

 

Learn how to use your brain cause all them fancy signals aren't worth crap when a dozen people simultaneously shout "off belay", or the wind is blowing or you've turned a roof or whatever.

 

 

[proper]

One great thing the mounties do is post their climb schedule. That is on my checklist along with weather and trip reports. Too bad the slothman types on this forum don't post their climb schedules because I'd add that to my checklist also. I'd say the mounties are more accomodating than the mountie bashers.