chelle Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 lummox said: if i attempted to get laid, but only got a handjob, i would still call it a success. that is a successful attempt. I think that's called a modified goal. It's also how Twight and the extreme guys justify climbing a particular line and not summiting the peak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 ehmmic said: lummox said: if i attempted to get laid, but only got a handjob, i would still call it a success. that is a successful attempt. I think that's called a modified goal. It's also how Twight and the extreme guys justify climbing a particular line and not summiting the peak. someone just got their shit handed to them!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 ehmmic said: lummox said: if i attempted to get laid, but only got a handjob, i would still call it a success. that is a successful attempt. I think that's called a modified goal. It's also how Twight and the extreme guys justify climbing a particular line and not summiting the peak. i am extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 specialed said: Erik what are you doing spraying so late? Its way past your bed time. As far as Epics in the mountains go: its often said - don't do stupid shit, but the only way you learn not to do the stupid shit is by doing it in the first place. I've learned the most I've ever learned climbing by epicing. I'm not one to tell anyone how to go about climbing, but the best thing I ever did was venturing off the beaten path and trying routes that I was unsure and even scared about. That really is the best way to learn about yourself and what it really means to be a climber. Don't go looking for epics, but for routes that truly challenge all of your mountain skills, and I'm sure along the way you'll experience whatever it is your looking for and more. Ok this brings up the question, what is an Epic anyways? One time I made up an Epic scale of E1-E5. I can't remember it all now, but E1 was like you get back to the car, an hour late, with blisters...and E5 was "touching the void". Partner deaths or your own death do not count. They are not epic. They are just BAD STUFF and should not be diginified by discussing them as 'epic' or assigning numbers. IMHO So anyways on that scale I think my biggest epic was about a 2, or 1.5. I was "lost" up the wrong valley for 2 days once following someone who claimed he knew where we were. On that same trip I fell off a log into Wall Creek, and was stung by about a dozen wasps, and got blisters (chestbeat icon here). But..... I have never had to make an unplanned, unequipped bivi. Ive never had to carry an injured partner down a scree slope. No lightning strikes. No SAR callouts. And you know what, it doesn't bother me. I'm not sitting here going "Man I wish I had some REAL epics." So JoshK and Cracked and skisports etc. my words of advice to you kids (where is the old man graemlin ) is to AVOID EPICS AT ALL COSTS. They suck. But like SpecialEd says, just get out there and push your limits, and you will end up with plenty o' gnarly stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 But if you are so scared to fail that you don't dare to try anything that you MIGHT fail on, then you will not improve, or at least, you will improve more slowly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 So what constitutes an E5? Does it have to be something like Shakleton's Arctic Expedition? That's got to be off the fucking charts. What about Simpson's touching the void shit? Or Doug Scott's Ogre crawl? According to Dru's descriptions, I've only been through a couple E2's. But that's enough for me. I think by surviving those you learn enough to decrease your chances of having any E4 or E5s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 specialed said: So what constitutes an E5? Does it have to be something like Shakleton's Arctic Expedition? That's got to be off the fucking charts. What about Simpson's touching the void shit? Or Doug Scott's Ogre crawl? According to Dru's descriptions, I've only been through a couple E2's. But that's enough for me. I think by surviving those you learn enough to decrease your chances of having any E4 or E5s. Ya those three define E5. Hell ya might even call that Antarctic Shackleton shit New Wave E5. Or that guy in Selkirks a few yrs back hit by avalanche while snowmobiling, both legs broken, crawled on snow pulling self with chin and 1 arm for 18 hrs straight to train track, along train track for 6 hrs, then just barely was not hit by train when they saw him and stopped. I think the scale went something like E1: blisters, late, rain, bug attacks, snaffles eat horsecock etc. E2: as above but unequipped bivi, OR, had to leave $100s of gear behind to escape E3: ditto but lost, OR, serious injury E4: injured AND lost, unequipped bivi, no food, outta gear, bear attacks, etc. E5: touching the void/ You arrive back to your own funeral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 an epic is when on the summit, priming for a celebratory smoke, you realize you forgot the lighter in the car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 If snaffles eat your horsecock that's defenitly at least E1+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 peyote is aid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Fumbling the crux clip on your redpoint burn, 5' out from your last bolt; there's your fuckin' epic right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Dr_Flash_Amazing said: Fumbling the crux clip on your redpoint burn, 5' out from your last bolt; there's your fuckin' epic right there. n make ya soil yer tights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 lummox said: Dr_Flash_Amazing said: Fumbling the crux clip on your redpoint burn, 5' out from your last bolt; there's your fuckin' epic right there. n make ya soil yer tights? Nah. Vomit into the nearest hueco, couple deep breaths, keep cranking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest_m Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 When climbing magazine had their first epics issue, they noted that if an epic occurs to you, by definition you must survive. People who do not survive do not have epics, they have tragedies. OTOH, they made it clear that other people can die during your epic. I’m not sure that the E1 stuff really counts as an epic, it’s just being late/tired/beat-up. I’d argue that all epics have to include at least one incident , i.e. losing/dropping a piece of critical gear, an injury, trapped in wrong watershed by avalanches, stuck in lightning storm above the irreversible traverse, whatever. To me, to qualify as an epic, your survival must be in doubt. Thrashing through the woods for an extra six hours with blisters while your SO gets worried may suck ass, but it’s not an epic… I recently read “This Game of Ghosts,” which didn’t change my opinion that Simpson is one tough, epic-surviving dude… but it did make me think that maybe he has to be because he is so unlucky? That guy has had more epics than anyone I’ve ever heard of. I love the part at the end… injured high on a Himalayan peak in a fall caused by his partner’s crampon breaking, he is being lowered – again – down an unknown ice face. His partner turns to him and says “I think you’ld better take this” and hands him his swiss army knife. Talk about sang froid… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 wasn't that Mal Duff w/ the broken crampon? that was a long fall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 But Simpson is also stupid, in that several of his epics could have been prevented. 1. When you are on a bivy ledge, make a BOMBPROOF anchor, so when the ledge drops away, you will hang on something secure. 2. When you are a beginning ice climber, don't try to lead something hard. He writes that he was uncomfortable walking on his crampons before he tried to lead that Scottish IV. Pretty dumb. 3. Siula Grande seems to have been bad luck. etc. Still, I like his books, and it seems that God refuses to kill the guy. He's got at least 9 lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Oh, BTW, was M. Layton's ascent of Big Four an 'epic'? I'd say yes, but you could argue that their lives were not endangered, so it wasn't an epic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 30+ hrs late Wrong side of the mountain SAR called out Probably an E2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Sphinx said: But Simpson is also stupid, in that several of his epics could have been prevented. 1. When you are on a bivy ledge, make a BOMBPROOF anchor, so when the ledge drops away, you will hang on something secure. 2. When you are a beginning ice climber, don't try to lead something hard. He writes that he was uncomfortable walking on his crampons before he tried to lead that Scottish IV. Pretty dumb. 3. Siula Grande seems to have been bad luck. etc. Still, I like his books, and it seems that God refuses to kill the guy. He's got at least 9 lives. Dood you are so right. Simpson is dumb as hellllll. And he wasn't trying to lead that Scottish ice climb I think he was trying to solo it. Simpson was such a bumbler, an epic waiting to happen. But yeah This Game of Ghosts and Touching the Void were awesom books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest_m Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Sphinx said: Oh, BTW, was M. Layton's ascent of Big Four an 'epic'? I'd say yes, but you could argue that their lives were not endangered, so it wasn't an epic. well, no disrespect intended, but i don't thing i would consider that to be an Epic. maybe if they had run out of food a day earlier. i consider Epics to be big deal, once or twice in a lifetime events. what those guys had was an Adventure - they dealt with unforseen circumstances with fortitude, but i never got the impression that they ever thought they weren't gonna make it. however, that wouldn't stop me from saying to them "dude, that was epic!" as a compliment. Epic, like so many slang words, has a way of slipping into other contexts, "the powder was epic [good]", "that was an epic slog [bad]", "sorry i'm late, i had an epic getting out of the office [ironic]" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crackbolter Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 This is an epic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 I had an E3 once. My son and I were scrambling Dickerman in snow, got off route, and were coming down a steep slope. My son, aged 14, slipped and couldn't arrest and rocketed off into a moat and struck his head. There was a helicopter rescue at midnight (Blackhawk), then I had to guide the rescue team out as they had been dropped and didn't know he route. Got to trailhead at 4:30 am. Grabbed a bite from the chuckwagon and then drove straight home, showered and then went to the hospital. Finally caught some sleep round noon. My son was in intensive care for 8 days and rehab for 1 month at Children's Hospital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 I think this epic discussion is good enough that it ought to be cleaved off from the original thread and made it's own topic. Can that be done? Moderators? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin_B Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Dru said: In summary. "Successful attempt" is an unnecessary construction when discussing routes. Exception... Another exception: if you go out planning on failing and fail, this is a successful attempt, or successful failure (it is what you planned to do). Also if you go out planning on failing and summit, this too is an attempt because you failed at your goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Another exception: if you go out planning on failing and fail, this is a successful attempt, or successful failure (it is what you planned to do). Also if you go out planning on failing and summit, this too is an attempt because you failed at your goal. No, in the first case it just means you are an idiot. In the second, it means the climb was too easy, AND you are an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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