pete_a Posted March 18, 2003 Posted March 18, 2003 Yeah...more questions about Denali..you cc.com'ers are just too damn helpful with all your beta for heading to Alaska. So, my group is trying to figure out what to do with fuel bottles. I know that we'll carry our fuel in one gallon tins we pick up on the glacier and we'll probably cache some fuel at basecamp and 11k for use on the way down, but what i am trying to determine is...when planning for your nights above 14k camp did you haul one of those fuel tins to 17k camp or did you bring along enough 22oz and 33oz fuel bottles to stock your high camp with? If we go with the small fuel bottle option, my group of five will be taking somewhere around 8 33oz bottles to 17k. Seems like a lot of freakin bottles. Just trying to figure out what folks have done in the past. Also, anyone noticed any performance benefits from running XGK's off of small bottles versus large bottles? just curious. Again, many thanks for all your help with the trip planning. Quote
freeclimb9 Posted March 18, 2003 Posted March 18, 2003 IMO, it's better to not put your eggs in one basket. If you lose a gallon jug, you're screwed. If you lose a liter bottle, you're only 1/2 way screwed. Quote
Attitude Posted March 18, 2003 Posted March 18, 2003 freeclimb9 said: IMO, it's better to not put your eggs in one basket. If you lose a gallon jug, you're screwed. If you lose a liter bottle, you're only 1/2 way screwed. 1/4 (ish) Quote
priapism Posted March 18, 2003 Posted March 18, 2003 Assuming you're doin the Butt, I'd say a lot would depend on when you're going to be up there. Fairly late season (we summited at the end of June) we had people giving us fuel (as well as food) right and left. They carried it around on sleds at the 14k camp, giving it away to avoid packing it down or pitching it. If I were to do it again during the same time frame, I'd leave Kahiltna Base with a stoveful of fuel and two powerbars.... Â Quote
mr.radon Posted March 19, 2003 Posted March 19, 2003 First, the one gallon tins are marked when you pick them up in base camp. You are required to turn in your marked tins at base camp before you leave. You can't give the tins away but you can empty it and crush it. Second, you will be hard pressed NOT finding parties willing to give away excess fuel/food at 14K. We would have been short on fuel had it not been for these generous parties. Third, we gave away a lot of fuel when we left. But, not as much as we were given. We planed to climb the full West Rib but due to weather we got stuck skiing at 14K for two weeks; hurt me. We had planed on just filling up our large fuel bottles (2) and going for it in one push. However, we ended up summating from 14K in one long day. Many people camping at 17K (Camp Misery) didn't stay up there much longer then 3 days. Some came down and returned for another try. So I would figure on bringing enough fuel for 3 days. 17K camp is close enough that you can easily return to 14K get food & fuel and be back in time for lunch. I doubt anybody up there would give away a drop of fuel. When we cruised through Camp Misery (17K) on summit day I was shocked to see the condition of the place; looked horrible. You ever think of a one day summit? Parties were pissing, shitting, eating and cooking in their vestibule because of the continuous storms hammering the camp. I don’t have pictures yet but you can check out my report of our trip up Denali at: http://www.mr-radon.com/alaska/Preface.htm  Have fun….   Quote
rbw1966 Posted March 19, 2003 Posted March 19, 2003 Laugh all you want but thats a pretty sound strategy for the West Buttress. Its so heavily trafficked that people heading for KIA are extremely motivated to offload food and fuel. Take enough to make it to 14K and you will literally be turning away food. I was skeptical when told this myself so carried some food and fuel to the 14K camp but in retrospect I'd go light and fast and scavenge from there. Quote
vegetablebelay Posted March 19, 2003 Posted March 19, 2003 From 14 we did a carry up to 16,2 and cached some fuel. When we moved up to 17 we took a 3 day supply and if we got stuck up there due to weather or whatever, we'd only have to go back down the ridge to get more fuel. Quote
jhamaker Posted March 19, 2003 Posted March 19, 2003 I know the pk svc recomends 1 pt/person/day, but I think if all your food is instant (yuck), and if you conserve fuel, 10oz/person/day should do. Quote
pete_a Posted March 19, 2003 Author Posted March 19, 2003 Thanks for all the info. Right now my group is planning on 1 cup of fuel per person per day, thats what most books recommend...a pint per day seems excessive, suprised that the park service recommends that. I've ran into plenty of folks who've recommended showing up at KIA with your gear and instead of fuel and food just bring a roll of $5 bills and bum and buy everything you need on the mountain, it would be fun to try that, but as we are first timers on the mountain, I think we're hoping to be as self-sufficient as possible. But I suppose it would be safe to budget in at least a few days worth of our fuel will come from groups trying to give it away. Quote
mr.radon Posted March 19, 2003 Posted March 19, 2003 In addition to my other post: Don't bring 8 bottles. Bring as many bottles as you have stoves. Use the tins for stowing the extra gas. Also, I have all the differenty sizes OR makes for the stoves. The small bottle would be worthless on Denali. You have to pump it up to many times to keep it consistant and doesn't hold enough fuel. We used our stoves a lot. We both liked to drink warm tea or coffee. Quote
jhamaker Posted March 20, 2003 Posted March 20, 2003 1cup (8oz)/person/day will get you less than 2 gallons of hot water w/ two boil-ups, but probably not boiling and definatley no hot water bottles for the feet at night or to sip durring the day. Make sure your stoves are interchangeable for parts and well protected when in use. A MSR heat exchanger and pressure cooker is rumored to save 30% in fuel consumption or more. Â Have fun! Quote
pete_a Posted March 20, 2003 Author Posted March 20, 2003 I do have a pressure cooker (3 liter size). I have been trying to decide whether to actually bring it of not...its a little on the heavy side. I've also heard that the backcountry oven covers can boost stove efficiency as well...we may pick up one of these anyways to do some baking.  anyone else have a per day fuel consumption recommendation?  1 cup pppd for 5 people for 25 days = 7.8 gal of fuel 10oz..... = 9.8 gal 1 pint..... = 15.6 gal  thats a hell of a lot of fuel Quote
iain Posted March 20, 2003 Posted March 20, 2003 better eat your proverbial wheaties. good luck pete Quote
hasbeen Posted March 20, 2003 Posted March 20, 2003 pete_a: I would recommend that you bring the pressure cooker. While I can't recall the specifics (as I climbed the West Rib over 20 years ago), I did bring a pressure cooker and seem to recall that the fuel savings more than offset the weight of the cooker. I wish I could recall how much fuel we brought and I don't seem to be able to find my planning notes but as I sit here, I remember being very happy to have lugged the pressure cooker up the mountain. I hope you have a great trip. Curt Quote
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