glen Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Hey all, I'm in the process of trying to learn (or learn how much I don't know) more about avalanche assessment. I've found that the intro books like "Staying alive in avalanche terrain" don't delve too deeply when it really comes down to understanding the 'why' in more than a phenomenlogical way. Any recommendations from the avi-savvy folks out there on more advanced books for the interested reader? I'm specifically looking for a good discussion of snow metamorphism and sets of case studies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 The Avalanche Handbook is excellent. It's written like a geology text, full of all the groundbreaking research data. Â Also, Bruce Tremper's new book is quite good (I can't remember the title) Â But I don't have either so you can't borrow them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 The Avalanche Handbook is excellent. It's written like a geology text, full of all the groundbreaking reasearch data. Â Also, Bruce Tremper's new book is also quite good (I can't remember the title) Â But I don't have either so you can't borrow them. Â also Avalanche Safety for Skiers and Climbers, Tony Daffern, Rocky Mountain Books (rmbooks.com) Â and Avalanche Handook is by McClung and Schaerer, pub. by the Mtneers. Â Now trivia time: What FA did McClung make in the Cascades and when? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobinc Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 The Snowy Torrents books are very helpful, as they are about accidents and show detailed reports of what went wrong and why. (The AAC Accidents version of avalanches.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Â Also, Bruce Tremper's new book is also quite good (I can't remember the title) Â Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain , the book Glen specifically said he doesn't like. I'm learning snow safety this winter, and I think it's an excellent read...but I am a backcountry newbie, so what do I know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 The Avalanche Handbook (mcclung) is good stuff. The Ed Lachapelle Snow book may/may not be useful - his glacier book is awesome. Â To better understand Snow try to get a copy of "The Snow Handbook" a massive (776pgs!) book on all the properties of the wonderful white stuff. It's out of print though, and textbook pricey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Are you sure that is the right title? I just went to www.abebooks.com to see if they had it and they don't. Abebooks specializes in out-of-print. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 most of the recent North American research gets published in Journal of Glaciology. Bruce Jamieson in particular has a recreational focus. Other good names to look for are David McClung, Jurg Schweizer, Bruno Salm, Sam Coldbeck. Â I recently found what must have been the first major english-language synopsis of european avalanche research put out by CRREL in the mid-'60s (author is Malcolm Mellor). Really cool! But more geeky science than anyone needs to know to go skiing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 The title is the "The Handbook of Snow: Principles, Processes, Management and Use". And, no Abebooks does not list it. It is available from the amazon.com affiliate program for the bargain basement price of $95.00 - unless you want the $492.00 version. Â http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/offering/list/-/0080253741/all/ref=dp_bb_a/103-7058691-8208616 Â Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen Posted February 9, 2003 Author Share Posted February 9, 2003 Tremper's book is quite good. I own it an recommend it as an introductory avi book. It does exactly what it is intended to. But, because it is an intro book, it doesn't delve too deeply because it would be too much too soon. It sounds like a lot of the stuff I was looking for is in academic texts or journals. Off to the library... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesse_mason Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Now trivia time: What FA did McClung make in the Cascades and when? Â haha, he was my prof last term, nice guy but also a weirdo, terrible teacher, we talked about climbing a few times but never mentioned any FA's what was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_Martin Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Books are good, but the best thing you could do is to take a class. Those who provide the most comprehensive classes are listed on the American Mountain Guides Association website or AMGA.com. Â I read a lot about avalanches and played with beacons on my own, but taking a class and having someone who is an expert talk about it showed me just how little I'd learned from the books. Â Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Now trivia time: What FA did McClung make in the Cascades and when? Â haha, he was my prof last term, nice guy but also a weirdo, terrible teacher, we talked about climbing a few times but never mentioned any FA's what was it? Â Â "peruvian headwall" finish to Price glacier on Shuksan, up the snow flutings on the left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Classes are great yes - but classes are short. Classes are also much more expensive than a library visit, which is free. Â If your going to take a class, I'd look for a ski area avalanche professional course (depending how many you've taken already over an AMGA course - they generally have more experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 First lesson of avalanche safety  If you DO get caught in a big slide there's two things you can do: Step 1. Put your head between your legs Step 2. Kiss your ass goodbye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen Posted February 13, 2003 Author Share Posted February 13, 2003 I have taken a course. It was great and well worth the money. I just have some areas that I want more info on. It goes without saying that being around experts is a much better way to learn than figuring out on your own from books. I think I'll have to wait until next season to take a more advanced course (ahhh, if only money and extra time grew on trees). The course I took was Gary Brill's avi I course (3 classes plus a field day). It was good and certainly had a lot of sweet shots of b/c freshiez! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 i took mclungs avvy course... GEOG 408. 4 days in the field plus 3 months in the classroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 nothing like an avalanche thread to instigate a quality name-dropping session Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 nothing like an avalanche thread to instigate a quality name-dropping session  did Reinhold Messner say that to you, too!!!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_Martin Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 If your going to take a class, I'd look for a ski area avalanche professional course (depending how many you've taken already over an AMGA course - they generally have more experience. Â The courses offered on the AMGA website are professional acreditied avalanche providers. They are oriented toward guides who are ski guides and take people into the backcountry either in helicopters or on backcountry skis. The lower level courses, Levels I and II tend to be a little more mixed company in that there are lots of normal everyday back country skiers. Level III is oriented toward guides and ski patrol. Â I took my course from Freddy Grossniklaus who has been a backcountry ski guide for thirty years. He has seen literally thousands of avalanches. Â There is currenlty a movement among avalanche providers to standardize the training across North America. The American Institute for Avalanche Research and Education (AIARE) is slowly becoming the standard. The reason I pointed to the list posted on the AMGA website is because that list points you toward these guys (the AIARE guys) who are considered the best in the business. Â Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 nothing like an avalanche thread to instigate a quality name-dropping session  did Reinhold Messner say that to you, too!!!?  yeah and did you see that Jason Martin just posted on a website I peruse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 nothing like an avalanche thread to instigate a quality name-dropping session  Oh that does seem to be true.  Jason - Just link to AIARE - http://www.avtraining.org/ - it's easier than wading through the crap that is the AMGA website (not that the AMGA is crap, just their website IMHO, sucks)  I took my course from Norm Wilson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesse_mason Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 i took mclungs avvy course... GEOG 408. 4 days in the field plus 3 months in the classroom. Â Ya its 404 now, thats what i took last term, now its only 1 day inthe field and still 3 mo's in the class room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 how do you do field days with no snow though. we had a good year, 1996 or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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