idea Cable bindings for Mountaineering Boots

[Spraylord_Boltey]

I know the silvretta/mountaineering boot skiing question gets asked from time to time. I know from personal experience that fixed heel skiing in mountaineering boots is horrifying. Mountaineering boots are soft enough than if your weight moves backwards, your ankles bend backwards and down you go. Its a workable concept for touring gentle terrain and I would argue still better than postholing or snow-shoeing. I was curious if anyone has experimented with making binding similar to Telemark or 3pin cable bindings for mountaineering boots? I'm imagining a wire bail similar to the silvrettas grafted in the place of the telemark toe. The benefits I'm imagining are the efficiency and touring capabilities of a 3pin or tele set up and I'm inclined to think that I could ski steeper slopes free heeled than fixed heeled with Mountaineering boots. Thoughts? Comments?

[montypiton]

I skied cable bindings with mountaineering boots back in the seventies and eighties, before AT bindings became available -- used the old "beartrap" style toe.  If you want to ski free-heel with mountaineering boots, why not just use the silvretta without the heel locked down?  I've skied 'em this way, and it works, but it changes the pivot point from under the ball of your foot to out in front of your toe, and you have to accommodate that change in your telemark technique.   Other solutions that accept mountaineering boots include a plate AT binding that Fritschi produced for the Swiss military back in the eighties, the  Colorado-based Ramer (plate very similar to previous Fritschi;  long out of business but you can find them at ski-swaps and estate sales...), and some of the AT "adapters" that permit free-heel touring in modern standard downhill bindings.  And I have to take exception - skiing in mountaineering boots is not much different than skiing in the leather downhill boots in which I learned to ski back in the sixties.   Skiing in plastic mountaineering boots like Koflach or Lowa is similar to skiing in older generation plastic alpine downhill boots -- far from "horrifying".

[JasonG]

Couldn't you just leave the heels free when descending on some 404s to give you that tele feel?  (edit:  Just saw that @montypiton said the same thing!)

It isn't likely that anyone is going to produce a binding like what you are thinking of, given how well modern AT boots climb.

 

 

[christophbenells]

https://www.voile.com/voile-mtn-plate-kit.html

 

 These work well with mountaineering boots, Use t-nuts to put into your ski so you don't throw a shoe, and replace the "pin" part of the system with a nut and bolt and some loctite. Non releasable in a fall (unless its a really big one....) These work great for approach ski bindings, I don't know why Viole doesn't market them as such.

 

I bet you could fashion a telemark cartridge to these to make a reactive feel like modern tele bindings.

Edited March 13, 2019 by christophbenells

[JasonG]

19 minutes ago, christophbenells said:

 These work well with mountaineering boots,

 I'd forgotten about the Voile option...... and I've approached with plastic mountaineering boots with those exact bindings (I have a splitboard)! 

Still, unless you are climbing really hard stuff I think AT boots are better in all respects.

[christophbenells]

yes this is ideal for an approach ski to get to ice and mixed climbs.  Also works well as a uber rugged XC/bushwacker setup! Not really for downhill use, for volcano climbing and peak bagging use an AT boot.

 

I have done some nice turns in the mountain plates though...

[Spraylord_Boltey]

For skiing steep terrain, a good AT set up is unbeatable. AT boots climb ice and snowy rock pretty darn well to. I guess I was looking more to bring mountaineering boots to nordic backcountry skis. I'll probably end up keeping the silvrettas as they aren't the limiting factor in my skiing (Hint: I'm the limiting factor!) but they are clunky and heavy. A cable binding seems like a nice way to knock off a bit of weight. I totally get that this is a super small niche and kind of dumb... I guess @montypiton I was wondering if anyone had made a "beartrap" style binding with a wire bail in the front instead of straps? Thanks for all the responses too!

[Wildearth]

These skis come with two binding options- universal that will  fit any boot and 3 pin bindings. Voile also sells a cable accessory for the 3 pin binding https://us-store.altaiskis.com/product/hok-ski-updated-2016/

Edited March 14, 2019 by Wildearth

[montypiton]

if anyone ever produced a "beartrap" style toe with a wire bail instead of a strap, I've never seen it.  However, if you have access to the beartrap housing itself, seems like modifying it would be fairly simple -- drill a couple holes and install heavy wire for toe-bail and -- bobsyeruncle.   the trick will be to find a pair of beartraps that aren't mounted over someone's fireplace as art...

I'd say stick with yer silvrettas...

[Gunkiemike]

As others have said, for freeheel skiing in Silvretta just don't lock the heel down. But I took it one step further - since I basically only need a nordic-style ski for fire road approaches to ice climbs, I didn't even mount the heel pieces. There's your weight savings!

[Matt Lemke]

Starting in 2020, they began making a few big mountain boots big enough for me (euro size 50) and I bought the Olympus Mons Cube with the tech binding toe bail integrated into the boot. Score I thought, but I realized the heel couldn't lock. Everyone on here says to just climb in your AT boots, but alas, we still live in the stone ages where AT boots are not made big enough yet for me (I need a Mondo 34).

I find myself looking for a way to ski with my new Cube boots...I don't have much experience skiing free heeled, but the terrain I'll be on is mostly 15-25 degrees in steepness...hopefully easy enough to be doable. Might give those Voile's a try though, thanks for the thread everyone!

[Linnaeus]

Scarpa makes the Maestrale and Atomic makes the Hawx in a 32 Mondo, which should equate to a euro 50. But if you truly need a 34 that is going to be tough. 

[bargainhunter]

Chouinard made an adapter for mountaineering boots to fit in cable tele bindings in the 1980s. I have a pair and used them on some fairly long mountaineering trips in Alaska in the Wrangells and on Denali. It was a toe piece with an axle  that fit into a modified Riva cable binding and allowed the rigid mountaineering boot to pivot at the toe.

I like your idea as I have tele gear and mountaineering boots and don't have an AT set up or plan to get one. I did mount some old Silvretta 404s on some approach skis but haven't used them yet. I suspect that set up, with the heel not latched would work fine for approaches and gentle touring. I have to decide between ski touring or a mountaineering goal and then choose what gear to take (tele vs mountaineering boots). Having an AT set up with boots that one can climb in would make this choice obsolete. But I'm kind of slow to embrace this change and I enjoy the free heel touring experience.

Classic climbs in the Alps were climbed then the slopes were skied back down to Chamonix in regular (non-ski) boots. Perhaps bringing back a similar cable binding set up might work? Also, Altai skis (maker of the Altai Hok) has a universal approach binding that will bind any boot but I doubt that offers much in the way of performance.

Edited April 17, 2021 by bargainhunter