Sloth_Man Posted February 5, 2003 Posted February 5, 2003 Hi All, This is a cool site. Just found it. Hey some of the routes up at the Upper Town Wall look pretty good. I've only done the Town Crier. Are there others you folks might suggest. What about the Green Drag On? The Waterfall area looks like good rock if it weren't for the waterfall. Keep in mind I'm kind of a pussy and definitely a sloth. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted February 5, 2003 Posted February 5, 2003 All of them are good. If the description says mossy and wet that means it's even better. Quote
erik Posted February 5, 2003 Posted February 5, 2003 Hi All, This is a cool site. Just found it. Hey some of the routes up at the Upper Town Wall look pretty good. I've only done the Town Crier. Are there others you folks might suggest. What about the Green Drag On? The Waterfall area looks like good rock if it weren't for the waterfall. Keep in mind I'm kind of a pussy and definitely a sloth. you mean as far as aid routes go???? or just in general???? Quote
erik Posted February 5, 2003 Posted February 5, 2003 I'm into longer aid routes. do you have the guide book?? Quote
Sloth_Man Posted February 5, 2003 Author Posted February 5, 2003 Somewhere I've got an old 8x10 guide book I got at the store years ago. As I recall it lists everything at A3 or A4, but the rock looks pretty good in places so I figured the A3 rating had lessened on some of the routes. Quote
specialed Posted February 5, 2003 Posted February 5, 2003 I'm into longer aid routes. There is also lots of great free climbing there Quote
erik Posted February 5, 2003 Posted February 5, 2003 Somewhere I've got an old 8x10 guide book I got at the store years ago. As I recall it lists everything at A3 or A4, but the rock looks pretty good in places so I figured the A3 rating had lessened on some of the routes. http://www.stanford.edu/~clint/index/ here is the old guide book. there is a new one out that is updated and has good topos and fair ratings. pm me if you want specifics Quote
ScottP Posted February 5, 2003 Posted February 5, 2003 Is that you Brian? Anyway, I feel Dana's Arch to the top is unfairly eclipsed by it's more obvious neighbors to the east. A worthy route in my book. Also, the upper pitches of the Zipper, though a bit vegetated offer some good aid without the lines/crowds at a reasonable grade. Cummins' guide puts the pitches above the scoop a little to the right of where I believe they should be. Have fun. Quote
dberdinka Posted February 5, 2003 Posted February 5, 2003 Hey ScottP! Both those routes (Zipper and Dana's Arch) still have A-ratings in the Index Guide. Did you need pins for either of them? How many and what type? If you don't mind sharing. Thanks. Quote
ScottP Posted February 5, 2003 Posted February 5, 2003 Hey ScottP! Both those routes (Zipper and Dana's Arch) still have A-ratings in the Index Guide. Did you need pins for either of them? How many and what type? If you don't mind sharing. Thanks. Dana's arch went clean, (though Rob clipped the bolts on the first pitch). For the Zipper, two pins on the pitch above the scoop to the Perverse Traverse ledge, and I don't remember any being used above. It was a while ago, so the actual type is suspect in my memory, but they were LA/baby angle size. Quote
Sloth_Man Posted February 6, 2003 Author Posted February 6, 2003 Hey thanks for the info. I'll definitely give Dana's arch a try. What's the consensus on aid ratings around here? I remember when I did Town Crier years ago I had to cam hook past a loose chunk in the crack right above the ledge on the first aid pitch. That was C2 in my book; I don't remember anything C2ish higher up as shown on the topo. But when I started climbing in Yosemite and Zion, C2 was more like balls out scary crap that I would have rated C3. I'd like to do Green Dragon (Drag On?), but I don't want to get into any heinous new wave C2. Any insight on that route? It also looks like one of the waterfall routes with the A3 knifeblade crack up high could be good. Does the waterfall ever dry up? Quote
erik Posted February 6, 2003 Posted February 6, 2003 Hey thanks for the info. I'll definitely give Dana's arch a try. What's the consensus on aid ratings around here? I remember when I did Town Crier years ago I had to cam hook past a loose chunk in the crack right above the ledge on the first aid pitch. That was C2 in my book; I don't remember anything C2ish higher up as shown on the topo. But when I started climbing in Yosemite and Zion, C2 was more like balls out scary crap that I would have rated C3. I'd like to do Green Dragon (Drag On?), but I don't want to get into any heinous new wave C2. Any insight on that route? It also looks like one of the waterfall routes with the A3 knifeblade crack up high could be good. Does the waterfall ever dry up? THE DRAG-ON IS ONLY I WOULD SAY BIT HARDER THEN T.C. IT DOES HAVE A FEW MORE HB OFFSET PLACEMENTS, AND FEW MORE CAM HOOK MOVES...BUT EVERYTHING HAS BOMBER GEAR IN BETWEEN. THE WATERFALL ACTUALLY HAS BEEN DRY MOST OF THIS WINTER....THOUGH FROM WHAT I GATHER THE ROCK IS BIT MORE BRITTLE..... Quote
chelle Posted February 6, 2003 Posted February 6, 2003 I've only done the first two pitches of Green Dragon. I recall wanting a set of offset cams on the first pitch. Some of the placements wouldn't take offset nuts and the cams were kinda sketchy because they weren't very good placements. If anyone has some offset aliens they want to sell send me a pm. Quote
MysticNacho Posted February 6, 2003 Posted February 6, 2003 Waterfall has been going every time I've been there Quote
dberdinka Posted February 7, 2003 Posted February 7, 2003 (edited) I skipped work yesterday (Thursday 2/6) and headed down to Index. I took ScottP's advice and did the first 2 pitches of The Zipper and the first 3 of Dana's Arch. The Zipper was awesome. Strenuous exposed moves out a huge roof. There is a lot of fixed gear along with some interesting camhooks and micronuts at the lip. I blew a pin (5/8 angle) while cleaning so it either needs to be replaced or bring some aliens. Definitely a bit harder than anything on GD or TC. Dana's Arch was excellent as well. Sustained, tricky aid throughout. I left narrow and wide camhooks on each daisy and used them over and over again. The first two pitches link and have lots of manky bolts and weird hooking to keep things interesting, maybe...C2+? At one point you hook a large pocket lined with quartz crystals, never seen anything like it. The third pitch was bit harder. Lots of bat hooks, hooks, mediocre cams and more manky bolts. I blew a chunk of rock out using a micro camhook resulting in a daisy fall on a bathook (IT HELD!). So I fixed a pin in the resulting scar. Pitch is probably C3, though bring a few skinny pins just in case. Both climbs don't need any gear bigger than 2 inches. Camhooks seem mandatory. For Dana's Arch bring 2 bathooks, 1 skyhook and 1 fishhook. Fun! Fun! Didn't see a soul all day. Edited February 7, 2003 by dberdinka Quote
erik Posted February 7, 2003 Posted February 7, 2003 I skipped work yesterday (Thursday 2/6) and headed down to Index. I took ScottP's advice and did the first 2 pitches of The Zipper and the first 3 of Dana's Arch. The Zipper was awesome. Strenuous exposed moves out a huge roof. There is a lot of fixed gear along with some interesting camhooks and micronuts at the lip. I blew a pin (5/8 angle) while cleaning so it either needs to be replaced or bring some aliens. Definitely a bit harder than anything on GD or TC. Dana's Arch was excellent as well. Sustained, tricky aid throughout. I left narrow and wide camhooks on each daisy and used them over and over again. The first two pitches link and have lots of manky bolts and weird hooking to keep things interesting, maybe...C2+? At one point you hook a large pocket lined with quartz crystals, never seen anything like it. The third pitch was bit harder. Lots of bat hooks, hooks, mediocre cams and more manky bolts. I blew a chunk of rock out using a micro camhook resulting in a daisy fall on a bathook (IT HELD!). So I fixed a pin in the resulting scar. Pitch is probably C3, though bring a few skinny pins just in case. Both climbs don't need any gear bigger than 2 inches. Camhooks seem mandatory. For Dana's Arch bring 2 bathooks, 1 skyhook and 1 fishhook. Fun! Fun! Didn't see a soul all day. MOS DEF!! NICE DARIN!! JEALOUS HERE! Quote
Sloth_Man Posted February 7, 2003 Author Posted February 7, 2003 the aiders. I only have one type of cam hook. I think for Index I need to get a couple of those micro ones and leave them on the aiders as well. I'd definitely rather cam hook than micro nut any day. Somehow over the years I've lost some hooks and pins. I only have a few blades a single lost arrow and some sawn off baby angles left. Are there consecutive bat hooks? I'll have to see if I can round up my other one. Dana's Arch sounds really cool. Quote
Lambone Posted February 7, 2003 Posted February 7, 2003 I'd like to do Green Dragon (Drag On?), but I don't want to get into any heinous new wave C2. Any insight on that route? Sloth_Man, You should go do Green Drag-On, it's cool. I'm not sure what "new wave C2" is...but Green Dragon is not very hard, Dana's Arch sounds quite a bit harder. The crux pitch 2nd requires some small nuts (offsets help) and a couple of hook moves. One move in particular is harder than the rest, bring a cam hook and you'll have no problem with it. Also you always have good gear below you. The route goes clean easily, and is fairly straightforward, but clean and asthetic (relative to TC). I wrote up some specific beta on the route last summer, do a search or PM me if you have specific questions. It's a great route to solo. By the way, nice pics of The Fear! Quote
Sloth_Man Posted February 7, 2003 Author Posted February 7, 2003 Well I'm no expert but I think Zion ratings are pretty much new wave. C2 in Zion would be aiding through loose ground on marginal gear with body breaking falls below. I think new wave C3 would be the same with death falls below. I guess that makes C4 death falls with really manky gear and really bad rock. In new wave ratings C5 or A5 doesn't exist. I think Moonlight Buttress gets a C0 or C1 which is kind of a joke when you think about the fact that cams can pull out of that rock if placed carelessly and there's 100ft+ sections of leapfrogging. There were pull out tracks all the way up, and I only placed cams in perfect pockets in the crack not in parrallel sections, but the sand still ground out from under every placement. I remember thinking if this pulls I'm gonna fall 200ft!. In my book that's at least C2. I think by new wave standards TC would be C0. Everything I've done at the lower wall would also be C0. New wave ratings are stupid. They make ratings completely useless, but it seems they're falling out of favor with the elite bunch of sandbaggers that are wall climbers. It's gotten to be such a joke. The Leaning Tower C0?? That is totally dependent on large amounts of fixed gear, and giving no rating to the difficulty of the moves only the danger. To me C0 is like City Park, straight forward non-strenuous moves with no danger. Quote
erik Posted February 7, 2003 Posted February 7, 2003 , but the sand still ground out from under every placement. that is the cam working i found zion clean ratings to be par with everything else. you just have to get used to the rock and onoce you do!!!!!!!!!!!! bam! you at the top!! Quote
willstrickland Posted February 7, 2003 Posted February 7, 2003 Man, the key to make Zion C2 feel like any other C2 is offset nuts and Alien Hybrids. I've got something like triples in the brass offsets, and like a fool I sold one of my sets of Alien Hybrids...big mistake, double sets are the shiznit, especically on Yos trade routes,so many pin scars, so solid on hybrids. Quote
specialed Posted February 7, 2003 Posted February 7, 2003 10-4. Zion ain't harder than anywhere else, and I'm aid climbing big wall weakman.... I just make Erik lead all the chimneys Quote
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