Billygoat Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Exactly Jay. I think we should pay more for our oil rather than invade. I think we are just too invested in keeping that part of the world broken up and at odds with itself (Legacy courtesy of the British) which is why they are so pissed off at us, so we can control and have access to cheap oil. It is in our economic interest not to let Russia or China get it. Pagetop: is it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North_by_Northwest Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 If those of you who claim that "it's all about the oil" have an argument hiding behind this assertion, I'd love to hear it. If not, at least find an objection to attacking Iraq that does justice to the seriousness of this issue. J_B -What you said above is well thought-out and interesting. I had not considered what you said. However, I don't think the argument you addressed is the main one we'd have to worry about if Bush was doing this for oil. The argument that I've heard (and it does hold some water) is that Bush is paying off those who supported him into power. He has been very open about using his position in office to repay those who have supported him. Oil companies have been his biggest supporters. U.S. occupation of Iraq would not benefit us as a nation, but it would open up their country and make it safer for private development. The same companies that put him in office could turn a HUGE PROFIT. Just playing devil's advocate and explaining that side here. I'm still for going into Iraq based on the WMD/terrorist connections and possibility of incidents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 True, True. It's just that getting rid of Saddam won't be the end of it and he is the smallest punk on the block, besides Grenada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 no shit? hadn't figured that angle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Or was it Noriega? or Mohamar Khadaffi? Or that Ayhatolla Nutbag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North_by_Northwest Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Small punks are the worst kind. They're willing to do something totally rash to get the attention and power they think they deserve, and they have nothing to lose. Bigger more powerful punks can be reasoned with and dealt with because they already have power and don't want to lose it in a fight. Read: Saddam is a young punk wanna be gangsta, mommas boy pranksta come set trippin' in the real G's territory. He got a deuce deuce in his draw's an he hot to pop shots. We gotta put his ass behind bars or six feet deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacierdog Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Exactly Jay. I think we should pay more for our oil rather than invade. I think we are just too invested in keeping that part of the world broken up and at odds with itself (Legacy courtesy of the British) which is why they are so pissed off at us, so we can control and have access to cheap oil. It is in our economic interest not to let Russia or China get it. The Middle East has been in turmoil since Biblical times. We have done nothing more than step in when the kids play too rough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Well yes, but in recent history the British gave them petroleum technology and set them up with artificial (they all are) national boundries and Identities with disregard and ignorance to their long histories and tribal affiliations. We have just stepped in to further the British misconception, as it were... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 I want to say Glacierdog that I respect you for serving our country in the Navy and appreciate the position you are in. I would just like to see your talents and efforts applied in more positive and less politically uncertain ways. The whole situation does not make sense and I don't believe there aren't a bunch of hidden agendas. If it doesn't make sense look for the money. It takes a real compelling argument to make money really worth dying for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 North by Northwest = LL Cool Jay B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North_by_Northwest Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Ladies Love Cool James is out. Get wit what's in: And I'm not Jay_B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 The argument that I've heard (and it does hold some water) is that Bush is paying off those who supported him into power. He has been very open about using his position in office to repay those who have supported him. Oil companies have been his biggest supporters. U.S. occupation of Iraq would not benefit us as a nation, but it would open up their country and make it safer for private development. The same companies that put him in office could turn a HUGE PROFIT. Just playing devil's advocate and explaining that side here. I'm still for going into Iraq based on the WMD/terrorist connections and possibility of incidents. Well, as long as we're playing devils advocate for each other here... While it's not certainly not inconceivable (to say the least) that a politician would use his office to benefit those who supported his bid to win the election, going to war for their sole benefit would entail risks to the politician and his supporters that would far outweigh the benefits. If a President ever attempted such a thing and word got out it would result in his immediate impeachment (at best), and the eternal ruin of his party. For the oil companies involved in such a plot it would mean criminal prosecution for the executives on top of a corporate implosion that would make the fall of Enron look like a taco stand closing. Beyond the implausibility of any corporation or politician taking such a risk is the improbability of their being able to implement such a plan without the public ever learning about it. Both the government and oil companies are massive institutions and carrying out such a plot would involve the wholesale complicity of not just the President and a few executives, but the majority of the executive branch, key members of the House and Senate, as well as scores of high level and not-so-high level employees within the oil companies. Even if such a large number of people wanted to keep a secret, they'd have a mighty hard time doing so, and I think that anyone who believes that such a group could pull this off is dramatically overestimating the secrecy with which it is possible for large organizations to operate. The Iran Contra operation was a genuinely clandestine operation, far from the mass mobilization of our armed forces occuring before the eyes of the entire nation and the world that is occuring now, and eventually the truth came out. Ditto for our nuclear secrets, various CIA snafus like the Castro cigar incident, and the like. And, does anyone remember something called Watergate? From what I call the sitting president was unable to conceal a minor botched theft of some documents, the discovery of which got him booted out of office and onto the political slag heap. Besides, if the president wanted to reward the oil companies for their support the easiest way for him to do so would be by means of targeted tax breaks, subsidies, or other market distortions, all of which would boost profits much more directly than securing access to oilfields by force of arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Ahhh, it was the best connection I could make at the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 The whole North by Northwest, LL Cool Nelly JayB thing not the conspiracy theory stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 However, I am actually LL Cool J. Word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Whoo hooo! At least there is a few of us still up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 However, I am actually LL Cool J. Word. I am confused. Is it "word" "werd" "wurd" or "wird" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piercestuggart Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 If Iraq's main export was rice does anyone think we would be going in there? Get real. Brown rice or wild rice? Basmati? or Uncle Bens! It does make a difference. Huge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacierdog Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Thanks billygoat. I happen to agree that the position I am in currently is a grievous misallocation of valuable government resources. But it is giving me a good base to build off of. I plan to run for president in about 15 years. Vote for me, I'll spend your money well (increased access privileges for all cc.com's denizens, federal funding for the man show, etc.) Seriously, though, I'm proud to be in the strongest Navy the world has ever seen. Maybe there are hidden agendas and corruption lining every action the US takes. I can't claim to know any better. I get my news from CNN, just like everyone else. But I can try to make the best of things, and find the good in the actions we do take. God bless America, and God help Bush. I would hate to be responsible for the greatest nation in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 If all that we wanted out of Iraq and was it's oil and we didn't believe that the current regime would funnel the oil profits into weapons programs that could potentially be used against us, our allies, or for purposes of nuclear blackmail as North Korea has done, why wouldn't we just buy their oil? Even if we bought it at 50% above the market price for several years it would still be a bargain compared to the costs of an invasion and occupation. Thank you, Jay. This is the same question I asked earlier and never received a response. The 'No War for Oil' bumperstickers on the back of 16mpg SUVs really kills me. I was biking home from work yesterday and got stuck behind an old VW bus plastered with such rhetoric, belching smoke and gas fumes, creating his own personal hole in the ozone layer. Ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 geee...what a novel concept. pay more for oil. supply and demand. i'm all for it except that it would probably further cripple the economy. Then again the unbudgeted expense for a war might do the same. Overall though, i'd say that avoiding a war and risking the economic damage from an increase in oil prices is worth it. Short term pain might result in a much needed long term change in this country. Mass transit and alternative fuel vehicles might finally take hold. Shouldn't most of the world be scared of us? Who has the nuclear arsenal capable of reaching anywhere? and BTW: yes, of course trask and i are involved in a torrid, steamy affair; the kind most of you wankers pay to watch in chick flix in the theatre so just shut up and watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 I knew it!!! That's hot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Good luck Glacierdog! We support you. Just make it back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 and BTW: yes, of course trask and i are involved in a torrid, steamy affair; the kind most of you wankers pay to watch in chick flix in the theatre so just shut up and watch. damn straight we are. the sex is outrageous and she's a fox. damn, I'm happier than a pig in slop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 I'd like to see Saddam's carcass dragged out and strung up like Mussoliniweenie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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